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Meaningless Violence
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 Re: Meaningless Violence
Posted by wil5on on Wed Nov 16th at 1:56pm 2005

Greed is how the world works, and how it always has worked. There will always be war, there will always be hate, and there will always be meaningless violence. It's admirable that you want to do something about it, but nothing can be done to stop human behaviour playing out. Things are not as bad as you think.




"If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?"
- My yr11 Economics teacher



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 Re: Meaningless Violence
Posted by SpoolE on Wed Nov 16th at 2:20pm 2005

IMO I hate both the Amercans and the Iraqi's. I hate the americans because they are envading(And skrewing up) a country that is in enough mess. I hate the Iraqi's for suicide bombing, even though it is "so called" their relegion (Which I find hard to believe). Im just glad I live in the Southern Hemisphere, far from war + terrorism.



I would love to change the world, But they would'nt give me the source code.



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 Re: Meaningless Violence
Posted by Naklajat on Wed Nov 16th at 2:27pm 2005

Robot (who is my brother) is crazy 'bout them facts, he knows what he's talking about, and he has seen many many many documentaries about this topic. He looks up everything he can find about terrorism, government corruption, the ways that the American government is s**tting on the US constitution and its people, and a whole bunch of other related stuff. He does, however, go about trying to get people to see his viewpoint in ways that they won't be receptive to.

As a side note: Robot, if nothing else, edit your post, link to the pictures and put a warning. People don't want to sit down and all of a sudden see children with their heads smashed in without knowing what they are about to see. And you've not gotten off to a good start here, most people around here really aren't going to be receptive to the way you're trying to get your point across. You have to be more tactful and respectful. I told you to join this site so you could get better at mapping, not stir up s**t.

Edit
===============
SpoolE, it's not the majority of people that that act like imperialists or terrorists, it is a small minority of 'extremists'. "I hate both the Amercans and the Iraqi's" is a very broad statement and hate is a very powerful word. If that statement is the truth, then you are ignorant.



=o



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 Re: Meaningless Violence
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Wed Nov 16th at 3:17pm 2005

? quote:
SpoolE, it's not the majority of people that that act like imperialists or terrorists, it is a small minority of 'extremists'. "I hate both the Amercans and the Iraqi's" is a very broad statement and hate is a very powerful word. If that statement is the truth, then you are ignorant.


Quoted for truth.




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 Re: Meaningless Violence
Posted by Gorbachev on Wed Nov 16th at 4:36pm 2005

While I agree with most of Robot's sentiments, I was unsure of his stance from the first post. It seemed all over the place. Basically Joe Public in the States has the wool pulled far over his eyes and I don't see that changing soon.




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 Re: Meaningless Violence
Posted by Nickelplate on Wed Nov 16th at 6:06pm 2005

? quoting Addicted to Morphine
Nickel, out of curiousity, does your anti-killing stance make you opposed to all wars?

That's a tough one. I know killing is always wrong, but I see when wars would be necessary. So, no, I'm not opposed to all wars. I wouldn't be one of those conscientious objectors: I'd fight in a war for my country, To stop an evil like hitler or terrorists, I'd be willing to commit that sin.

ROBOT SANTA~

Perhaps I was a bit hasty in my reply and was rude toward you before. Please forgive me.

I still disagree with you on may points, however. the main thing I want to say right now is take the pictures off your last post so this thread can be regular size and we won't have to sidescroll. its really annoying... thx




I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



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 Re: Meaningless Violence
Posted by Robot Santa on Wed Nov 16th at 11:56pm 2005

i feel sad for all of you.

please realize that you do have the power to make a differnece in the world and the only thing that will make it so you cant is the belief that you cant make a difference.

even if you dont take it upon yourself to learn anything please when the time comes, do what you know in your heart is right. My point is that this is our world and you shouldnt just give up and say, well it is the way it is and thats always the way its gonna be and i cant do anything about it. Thats just not true and that is ecactly the kind of thinking that has gotten us where we are today. Dont expect someone else to make things better for you. And if you do let someone else do things for you, just remeber you have to do what they say, or else.

"emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds" -Bob Marley

Wil5on:

i only said to go watch an independent film about 9/11 becasue most people have only heard what the corporate media has told us. It is very important to look at both sides of any story if u want the truth. Its sad to say but the medias story falls apart pretty quickly when u start looking into it.There was no real investigation of 9/11, in fact almost all the steel from the WTC was sold within weeks after the tragedy, and the only peices that were saved is because a group of families of the victims is demanding an investigation and suing the US government. they were only able to save a few peices, the rest got scrapped. i hope they can shed light on the truth for us all. The media is an INCREDIBLY powerful tool. think about it, hitler only had radio and flyers, and he convinced his whole country it was in their best interest to invade the rest of europe and to exterminate the jews. he had them turning in their jewish neighors to the secret police. and this is just 60 years ago. think of what joseph goebels (hitler's propoganda master) could have done if he had TV and computers and modern technology.

Gorbachev:

THANK YOU! people do have a very thick veil pulled over there eyes, but its up to us to pull it back one person at a time, thats one of the best reasons there is to get educated. and every person that u help lift the veil tell them do do the same for someone else. be a leader.

Nickel: forgiven, wow u can edit your post, roger that im linking them now.

SpoolE:

did u know that according to the UN 500,000 CHILDREN have died due to economic sanctions (thats just lack of the things people need to survive, like food and medical supplies) because they placed a trade embargo on the country since 1991. The UN estimates 5,000 deaths of children under 5 every month due to their own sanctions in Iraq. Cant u feel the love? Even if it turned out to only be half that, its still wildy outrageous, and sick i might add. What would we be doing if those were American children dying?









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 Re: Meaningless Violence
Posted by Nickelplate on Thu Nov 17th at 12:09am 2005

Robo-

Dude, just because people disagree with you doesnt mean that they warrant you feeling sorry for them. I can tell that you are a very left-wing person. One of the things about you guys that bugs me the MOST is that you look at us Righties as "poor, deluded, blind caveworms who need to be exposed to the wonderful light of changing everything..."

Some things can't be changed. There will always be rich people who control the government, there will always be greedy arseholes like Oilcompany execs. and there will always be ppl getting stepped on who are too nice to do anything about it. (like rioting and starting revolutions)

it's true that you CAN do something about things that go on in the government, It's called voting, but they ALL LIE!!! so you vote in the guy you think is best, and he has done a bait-and-switch on you!




I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



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 Re: Meaningless Violence
Posted by Robot Santa on Thu Nov 17th at 12:43am 2005

like i said dude, right wing and left wing is a distration. whoever comes into office we still would have had a war, the patiot act still would have passed, its just the face that u want in office. Nowadays they have installed electronic voting machines, there is no paper trail. and we all know how easy it is to mess with digital info. I still vote anyways. Many people choose not to vote because they dont think it will make a differnece, i say thats all the more reason to vote so we can say that it didnt turn out like it should have and expose the corruption.

Listen. im not left or right or in the middle. i believe in the constitution of the United States of America. i believe that if we help eachother instead of spend our lives at eachothers throats, things can get better. actually they have to try really really hard to make things as bad as they are. the greatest tool for peace we have is knowledge. Peace is not such a farfetched idea. It comes down to a choice on a personal level for every human being on the face of this earth, wether u want to live in peace and love or wether u want to live in fear and accept being absolutly and totally controlled. Is a life without freedom worth living? The greatest power God gave us is the power of choice.

oh and not sorry, i dont feel sorry for any of you. sad is the word i used. and not because you disagree, because you refuse to belive you have any control.






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 Re: Meaningless Violence
Posted by wil5on on Thu Nov 17th at 1:15am 2005

It's all well and good to say everything would be so much better if everyone loved each other. Problem is, this is impossible. People are selfish, this is evidenced by the success of capitalism, and makes sense in terms of evolution. There is no point in human history where people were not fighting.

Nations rise and fall. Wars are won and lost. People get controlled. This is human behaviour, it is not realistic to expect to change it.

You seem to see the US government as an evil entity, controlled by evil corporations, which has the sole purpose of manipulating its citizens and sucking them dry. This is not true. The government is made of people. Corporations are run by people. Just like you and me. Try to consider that.




"If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?"
- My yr11 Economics teacher



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 Re: Meaningless Violence
Posted by Dr Brasso on Thu Nov 17th at 2:02am 2005

mr robot santa....

you sound like a reasonable and sensitive person.

im told that man is the only animal capable of murdering another human for sport. and because of this singularity, peace and love has been in the great quest for intelligent folks since man was ..... made. it recently resurfaced again in prominenece in the late 60's, and was somewhat quieted by time, and satiation of personal wants in the generation that came fom the sixties. i'd be curious to know your age sir, since your arguments hold all the wide eyed passion of the late 60's "love culture" , and have the phrasing of a young boy....thats not meant to be offensive sir, that simply puts the said argument in perspective for me....time changes all.....no exceptions. in small doses, or tidal waves, it will change. just a guess, but i figure at the rate we are going, if we survive, we'll be at peace sometime in the 22nd century.....thats just going with the learning curve.

we are top of the food chain, yet dumber than bricks...."human intelligence" in my mind at times is the most insufferable oxymoron there is. anyway....

i was idealistic at one point in my early life... (the 60's, go figure <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> ), but time and experience, and repeatitive negative events, have jaded me.....im green with envy, green in my pocket, and green around the gills from being so sick of it all....and a vacation wont fix it.

hold to your beliefs, be true to yourself and your i deals, and eventually, someone will turn a head and say, "hes right".....dont expect overnight success....

but dont give up. ever.

Doc Brasso...:dodgy:





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 Re: Meaningless Violence
Posted by French Toast on Thu Nov 17th at 2:08am 2005

World peace won't happen...


IMO...




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 Re: Meaningless Violence
Posted by Dr Brasso on Thu Nov 17th at 2:15am 2005

well, toasty, to put it mildly, itll be at peace, one way or the other.....by man finally reaching a point of sanity in unison, or about the time the whole f**kin' place blows up....i didnt specify bud <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">

Doc B.... :dodgy:





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 Re: Meaningless Violence
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Thu Nov 17th at 3:00am 2005

I think Ideals are useful as illustrative concepts, and are to be respected given that they form the basis for organized society. However devotion to any single ideal is purest evil. Only ideologues can murder for their beliefs. The pragmatists of the world are the ones who keep the peace.

Even if your ideal is pacifism, you can do incomparable harm. There would have been no necessity for WWII if Hitler had been stomped on by the League of Nations when he first began violating the treaty of Versailles. This would likely have required an act of violence, yet it would have been infinitely preferable to the results of appeasement. There is obveously more historical complexity here than I am acknowledging, but I think the point is valid.

War is frequently justified, and ironicaly, in the best intrests of peace.




Some people are like slinkys...

They aren?t really good for anything, but you can't help but laugh when one tumbles down the stairs.



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 Re: Meaningless Violence
Posted by Robot Santa on Thu Nov 17th at 4:53am 2005

Thank you Dr Brasso,

it seems you are the only one that actually read my posts, at least the only one who listened. I am 19, and i appreciate your words of encouragement. i believe humans are getting to the point where they can actually understand what love is, and this gives me encouragemnet as well. i will never give up and i will always stand in the light even if i have to stand there alone. People do listen, and i did come on rather strong in this thread and i see the errors of that way, it turns people off rather easily. But i was told by a great man i know that God is going to wake up eveyone individually, and that day God did prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that he does exist, up till that day i had always questioned my faith in God, but no longer. He showed me when i REALLY needed him too and i'm sure he is reaching people every day, this gives me great hope for the future.

When the time comes, dont get chipped. yep the florida company that manufactures them has already gotten them FDA approved and you can even get them implanted in your kids(in the fatty tissue btweeen the deltoid and the tricep)where it makes you a blip on a screen forever, this same technology has already been used for years in pets and for wildlife research and management.

The people behind the scenes nowadays are exactly that, behind the scenes. The normal view of "rich" is laughable when compared to the mountain of wealth of a few families at the top. (The Rothschilds and the Rockafellers) these men are in charge of lending money to nations or rather in charge of the men in charge of lending money to nations. Where do u think all the billions and billions of dollars come from? i'll tell u. they just print it up, its just paper to them, it costs nothing, or next to nothing anyways to print it. Their key to control of a nation is to establish a central bank. the central bank in america is known as the federal reserve, which is a private corporation that is in charge of our nations economy(ie: the isssuance of money) the US government only owns 20% of this corporation and is only allowed to appoint 2 of the 6 members of the federal reserve board. So therfore, our nation has no real control of its own economy.

It's interesting to note that during the civil war president Lincoln went to the international banks to ask for a loan, they said ok, 30% interest. Lincoln refused and instead he decided to print his own money, which they called greenbacks. The way he got the money into circulation was he paid the Union soldiers with these greenbacks and made them good for the payment of taxes(being good for the payment of taxes was the ONLY reason this was able to succeed as there was nothing to back the money, no gold no nothing). It was wildly successful, and Lincoln was assasinated by a hired killer(John Wilkes Booth), who said he was hired by the international banks. (this is all recorded history by the way)

president Andrew Jackson spent his whole 2 terms fending off the central bankers and their politicians. there was an attempt on his life, luckily both flintlock pistols mis-fired.

Through intense lobying and the infiltration of the government by greed driven men who would seek to profit from this central banking system, we now have the federal reserve bank.

Today evry major country has a central banking system and a national debt, which can only be aquired through a central banking system. And as a result the citizens of these countries are left to pay off this debt. So basically we are all already financial slaves, especially if you are in the credit system. Make no mistake, we are the ones expected to pay off the debt, and our childen, and their children. These men do have a plan for the world, and judging by the blanently arrogant words that spu out of their mouths, it is a grim one.

So theres your history lesson fo the day. dont know what got me started on that but there you go.




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 Re: Meaningless Violence
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Thu Nov 17th at 5:48am 2005

Why the new rant?! Anybody who believes in conspiracy theories like this needs to spend more time thinking about it. It's off topic besides.

If I am worried about anything, it's the thought that my labor might one day help to support people who spend more time whining about politics than they do actually contributing something useful to the world. Don't get me wrong, I don't care one bit about "the world". Everyone but me, my friends and family can burn for all I care. I am a greedy bastard out to make money, but that probably means I will end up contributing more to the welfare of mankind than most others who "care" more simply because you have to offer thoughts and achievements of VALUE in order to get rich.




Some people are like slinkys...

They aren?t really good for anything, but you can't help but laugh when one tumbles down the stairs.



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 Re: Meaningless Violence
Posted by wil5on on Thu Nov 17th at 6:21am 2005

My economics teacher said that economics should be a compulsory subject. I can see why. Let me clarify the concept of central banking and national debt (this is from memory from over a year ago, so its not perfect, and its from what I know of the Australian system, the US is probably slightly different).

The goal of the central bank of a country is to control that country's economy. Not in a bad way, I can assure you. Central banks set a target interest rate for all loans, which banks approximately follow (plus 1-2%). By doing this, the central bank is able to control inflation. I beleive the US federal reserve has been increasing interest rates lately. This is not to take money from people, this is to control inflation. Without a central bank, a countrys economy will become much less steady. The Great Depression is an example of what happens when economies are not controlled properly.

National debt is, essentially, the total amount of money a country owes others. If you were to take out a loan from a foreign bank, you would contribute to national debt. Most banks are international operations, so most loans you take out come from the country that is best for the bank. So national debt includes not only money the government has borrowed, but the credit card bill Joe Six-pack hasnt paid yet. I know that in late 2004, the Australian government owed no money to other countries, yet Australia had a large national debt.

I also agree with Tracer. Greed is how the system works, and the greedier people are, the better the world's economy will run. As was said in the movie Wall Street, Greed is good.




&quot;If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?&quot;
- My yr11 Economics teacher



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 Re: Meaningless Violence
Posted by Robot Santa on Fri Nov 18th at 3:40am 2005

exactly, it means they can control infaltion or deflation because they have control of the flow of money,which means u take the control of the nations economy away fo the nation. they can put money in or stop putting money in the economy on a whim of a few individuals, and no they dont have yours and my best interest in mind, they have their best intersest in mind, they are about profit, as so many people here have simply put, they are fueled by greed. we had a central bank during the great depression, and the people who were "in the know" sold all of their stock right before it happened ($CHA CHING!$), and normal people were o poor they had to sell there buisnesses and all their assests for pennies on the dollar(to the same people who had sold all their stock right before the crash). It was a squeeze basically. and tracer, no u wont contribute to the welfare of mankind as u put, u are simply fueling a monster. greed is how THIS system works, it has taken a lot of work and many many years to make it this way, for the precise reason of gaining control of ours, and every othe nations economy. Its basically just another step tword globalization, yo.




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 Re: Meaningless Violence
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Fri Nov 18th at 4:47am 2005

Globalization

It's going to happen, and I love it. "Greed" as you put it, is the only reason we don't live in grass huts. Hooray for those who are willing to work for personal gain!





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 Re: Meaningless Violence
Posted by Robot Santa on Fri Nov 18th at 5:58am 2005

http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html

Message submitted 1 minutes after original post:

u wont love it when u have a man in a blue helmet rolling a tank through your front yard. and "greed" is the reason u live in a house and most people in this world harldy have a grass hut to live in.





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