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XBox 360 launch
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 Re: XBox 360 launch
Posted by SpoolE on Thu Nov 24th at 5:41pm 2005

Personaly, I dont understand why consoles are so popular, especcialy ones like Xbox that try to immitate PC's. Whats wrong with a good ol', UPGRADABLE computer?



I would love to change the world, But they would'nt give me the source code.



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 Re: XBox 360 launch
Posted by ReNo on Thu Nov 24th at 6:11pm 2005

Not everybody WANTS to upgrade stuff. It's far easier to pay a one off charge of ?300 or whatever, get a console more powerful than the vast majority of PC's available at the time, and know you'll have at least 3 or so years of gaming with no additional upkeep costs. A PC that plays games similar to an Xbox 360 would be about 3 times the price. A lot of people like being able to kick back on their couch, and play games straight off on their big screen TV with some mates - PC's just don't accomodate for that sort of experience, due to the hassle of installing games, loading up windows to start with, and so on. I've got over 40 Xbox games and I can play any one I want at any time - on the PC, if I want to play a game I have to load up windows, install the game, grab the patches, and THEN launch the game - that's just not as convenient.




Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net



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 Re: XBox 360 launch
Posted by Crono on Fri Nov 25th at 1:24am 2005

The only problem is consoles are becoming upgradable. What about memory expansions which they did for the older Cartridge systems? And it wasn't until about twenty years ago that consoles became solid. I mean, look at the Atari. They came out with a new one every year because they upped the processor speed and you needed the new one to play the new games. That was $300 a year. (USD of course :P) It's going back to that type of situation, just not that bad.

My computer loads faster than my PS2 most times. Most all computer hardware is also more reliable (talking about the PS2 here)

Also, they're (Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo) planning on implementing an online patch downloading system for console games <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/sad.gif">

My computer accommodates for the experience you're talking about; I'm completely serious. Although, I think I'm outside the scope you're talking about <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">

I know what you're saying, but you're really talking about consoles between 1985 and 1995 ... not now. You can still turn them on and play a game, but it's getting closer and closer to being a computer system and not just a console gaming machine.

Nintendo doesn't count though.


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: XBox 360 launch
Posted by satchmo on Fri Nov 25th at 1:38am 2005

? quote:
online patch downloading system for console games

Welcome, to Steam on the XBox.

But seriously, Steam wasn't really that bad of an idea.




"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



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 Re: XBox 360 launch
Posted by ReNo on Fri Nov 25th at 2:31am 2005

Even the generations you say I'm talking about had upgradabiltity to some degree Crono - look at the various bits and bobs you could add to the Amiga (though it was essentially a PC), 32X/Mega-CD for the Mega Drive, memory expansion pack for the N64, Gameboy Player/Broadband Adaptor/Modem for the Gamecube, HDD/Broadband adaptor for PS2...

So yeah, there is some upgradability in consoles, but it's not really comparable to PC's. In the VAST majority of cases, you can pick up any game for your console and it will work, regardless of how old or new it is. For all intents and purposes, anybody can do it with no knowledge necessary other than "I have a Gamecube" or the like. The same cannot be said for PC's - the simplicity isn't there. Now this isn't a worry if you are running a top quality gaming PC, but not everybody has the cash to throw around hundreds of quid every few years on upgrades nor the technical savvy to know what to buy or how to fit it. Buying a console with a likely lifecycle of 4 odd years is a safe and simple investment, even if you factor in the odd different "version" such as the 360's full and core systems.

I highly doubt you can get from power off to gameplay faster on your PC than your PS2 (and it's not fair to use different games now!), but I also have no way of proving otherwise, so hey, if you say so <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> Installation, unless you have some uber hard drive and keep everything you own on it, detracts from the spontaneity that consoles offer too.

The console patching thing is already a reality to some extent due to the Xbox hard drive and Xbox Live, but the majority of games that come out are more "completed" than the typical bug-ridden PC game. Exceptions to the rule exist of course, but almost every game I hear about on the PC these days has some pretty critical issues that are addressed by patches in the weeks following release, whereas very few Xbox games whatsoever feature patches nor really need them. The issue of upgradability also plays a hand in this - developers only have one (typically) target system with a console game - the PC versions of games have to work on any number of different system configurations. I don't forsee it becoming part of console culture in quite the same way as it is for the PC, but I agree that it is on the rise, which has its advantages as well as disadvantages (yay extra content and evolving games, boo for less "need" for bug-free games at release).

I'm sure your computer can accomodate for that experience - I too have had my PC rigged up to my big screen TV in front of my couch and been techically able to plug in a few controllers and play a multiplayer game - but lets face it, the games that allow for that (multiple people on one system I mean) are few and far between and the likelihood of such a setup being feasible for your average joe is pretty slim :P

I stand by that my original post fits for today's consoles, hence why I used my xbox as an example.

Funny thing is, I know your post was only made for the sake of arguing and at heart you agree (you're a console gamer as much as a PC gamer after all), but I still ended up taking the time to make such a long retort <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">




Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net



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 Re: XBox 360 launch
Posted by Foxpup on Fri Nov 25th at 2:37am 2005

...or I could just wait for an emulator to be released. PC wins again. Obviously, I voted NO.


Better to be in denial than to be human.

Bill Gates understands binary: his company is number one, and his customers are all zeros.



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 Re: XBox 360 launch
Posted by wil5on on Fri Nov 25th at 2:48am 2005

For me personally, and I'm sure at least a few of the other PC fans here, it is in fact faster to load up a PC game. I turn my computer on first thing in the morning, and its usually running all day. If I want to play a game, I just plop down here and play it. To play a console game, I'd have to find the cd/dvd, put it in the playstation, turn the thing on, set the TV to AV, then sit down and wait for it to read the CD. Which is especially inconvenient when I'm already sitting at my computer.

I do agree that consoles are good for people who dont know, or want to know how computers work.




&quot;If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?&quot;
- My yr11 Economics teacher



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 Re: XBox 360 launch
Posted by Campaignjunkie on Fri Nov 25th at 3:21am 2005

I'd like one, but I'm going to wait until there's a game that really catches my interest.




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 Re: XBox 360 launch
Posted by Crono on Fri Nov 25th at 8:56am 2005

Kay, but I wasn't really arguing or anything like that. (I was neglecting the Amiga and Genesis with their thousand billion add on campaigns)

I think, the N64 is one of the only cartridge consoles (besides 32X) that REQUIRED a hardware upgrade to play certain games. (It was for video memory, I believe)

Don't assume I'm installing a game every time I wish to use it and Uninstalling it every time I'm done playing. It's a one time deal. I wasn't talking about having my computer off then starting it. But, even if I was, it wouldn't matter, specifically talking about PS2, for example, it's taken over five minutes for a game to "work". My PS2 is more temperamental than any NES. PS2 is just poorly made.

I'm having trouble getting any of the blue-disc games loading now too.

In any case I could have my computer going with whatever game in that amount of time, and that's only if it's off. If it's on, doesn't take much time at all to load up a game.

I'd have PS2 stuff running on my computer, but I don't have a network adaptor. If I had that I could download the BIOS <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> (I'd grab an Xbox bios from someone too so I could play the 3 or 4 Xbox only titles that are good which just all happen to be made by Sega.)


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: XBox 360 launch
Posted by SpoolE on Fri Nov 25th at 9:03am 2005

The reason I dont want a Xbox is because of its limitations:

- Very few buttons
- You can only play games
- And many more

I like a PC because I can play games with a mouse, and I dont wanna play games on a TV!



I would love to change the world, But they would'nt give me the source code.



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 Re: XBox 360 launch
Posted by ReNo on Fri Nov 25th at 3:25pm 2005

Don't get me wrong SpoolE, I understand why people prefer PCs, but since you said you didn't understand why people prefer consoles, I thought I'd try and explain. Nothing wrong whatsoever with preferring PCs.

Crono, I don't assume that every time you play a game you install then uninstall it, but the nature of having to install games does kind of restrict how many you can have immediate access too. Fair enough, if you have a huge hard drive and dedicate most of it to games you can probably get on loads, but typically I only have about 3 games installed on my PC, which really doesn't lend itself to a great deal of that spontaneity I was talking about. I'll frequently just chuck some random old game of mine onto a console on a whim, play it for half an hour or something, then stop. Doing this with a PC would require dedicating a whole lot of storage space to games - I've 120gb in total and as I said, I rarely have more than 3 installed at once. The very nature of the PC being multi-purpose leads to me using the storage space for other purposes. I doubt there are that many people who keep their entire games collection installed at all times.

Did you get one of the early PS2's Crono? I picked up a fairly late on model - the satin silver one when it was released - and haven't had any problems with it. Same can't be said for my early model Xbox, which crashes frequently with about 50% of new games <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/sad.gif"> God damn you thompson, make better DVD drives next time :P

Oh and I just want to take this opportunity to salute Microsoft for making their 360 controllers work with the PC out of the box. Nice move <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">




Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net



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 Re: XBox 360 launch
Posted by Crono on Fri Nov 25th at 9:41pm 2005

Yeah, I have a second US shipment. I had a first shipment, but as I've said before, it broke the day I bought it. The thing that really pissed me off is it was one of the few. My friend, who I went with, took the one I had ... and I took the next one ... his never worked improperly. Although it was stolen a couple years ago.

Overall, my PS2 works alright. But, I have had to open it many times to fix it. Compressed air became my friend. (Blowing air inside tends to fix the blue-disc problem, that or tipping it over while it starts to load then once it's going set it down.)

Yeah, I understand that people don't keep lots of games installed ... I do <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> I was actually trying to get all my games installed (it would make playing games on a whim easier <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">) I ran out of space, but I plan on getting one that's 2.5x bigger, so, Everything might fit.

Yeah, right now I have a good ... 22 Games installed. Counting Steam as one game. (And we all know that's more like 30 games on its own.)


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: XBox 360 launch
Posted by Underdog on Fri Nov 25th at 10:17pm 2005

I have 160 gig HD. Shame Windows doesn't recognize it all without a partition but even so, with all that space I still couldn't install everything I own. Perhaps with two 160 gig drives but not a single.

Besides, who would want to. On a whim I installed Quake 2 for nostalgia reasons a couple weeks ago. It looked so awful that I barely made it through the first area before I puked out on it. Shame really. I am such a Quake fan.

Anyway, the best thing about the 360? I am no longer obligated to furnish my children with the newest play pretty. If they want one, guess who's pocket it will not be coming out of.

I did see a game that I might be enticed to buy/play on TV today. Anyone see the advert for "The Warriors"? I remember when that movie came out. It was my favorite then. For curiosity sakes I might buy it and retry my hand at a console game.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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 Re: XBox 360 launch
Posted by Crono on Sat Nov 26th at 2:01am 2005

Underdog, install Service Pack 1. It'll allow for the entire thing to be one partition. If you already have things on the second partition, A) Put on SP1 then B) Get a partition program and merge the partitions (Paragon has one that does the trick)


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: XBox 360 launch
Posted by Underdog on Sat Nov 26th at 2:33am 2005

At first I didn't like the weird way Windows handled my hard drive but I have grown accustomed to my partition now. I store valuables on it just in case I bork out my main area and need a total wipe. Its rare but I have been in situations where I wished I had a backup drive. I used to run two real hard drives. Back when big drives were much more expensive. This is the first computer I have owned with only one physical hard drive. I was worried at first, but after about a year with no issues I have gotten complacent. I should backup all my vitals soon.


There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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 Re: XBox 360 launch
Posted by Crono on Sat Nov 26th at 2:49am 2005

If something happens to your partition ... just to let you know ... once you reinstall windows you wont be able to access that second parition without SP1. (I just went through this with a friends computer)

But, there are nice, easy (free), partition recovery programs out there. One that comes to mind is testdisk

If something happens to a HDD and it isn't an electrical or physical problem: it's recoverable. Even if you delete the partition you can do a virtual recovery and get it back ... however, some of your files could be corrupted since they would be partially written over (depending on their position in the allocation/file table).

Reformating is never the answer. Even if you have a fragmented MFT you can do a boottime defrag with a 3rd party software to get it good again.

Anyway, this isn't what this thread is for!

DOWN WITH XBOX! I mean. Yeah. Whatever.


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.




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