December 7th
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Re: December 7th
Posted by Underdog on Thu Dec 8th at 2:22am 2005


Take a moment and ponder.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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Re: December 7th
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Thu Dec 8th at 2:38am 2005


I just wonder how many people know what you're talking about...


Some people are like slinkys...

They aren?t really good for anything, but you can't help but laugh when one tumbles down the stairs.



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Re: December 7th
Posted by French Toast on Thu Dec 8th at 3:03am 2005


...Not me!




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Re: December 7th
Posted by FatStrings on Thu Dec 8th at 3:33am 2005


ooh, ooh, i do! pick me! pick me!




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Re: December 7th
Posted by wil5on on Thu Dec 8th at 3:35am 2005


Happy International Civil Aviation Day!

No, really, I know what it is, but I'll leave it for all you to figure out by yourselves.




"If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?"
- My yr11 Economics teacher



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Re: December 7th
Posted by Dr Brasso on Thu Dec 8th at 4:32am 2005


im a vet, i remember, i also remember having multiple conversations here on said topic, and im worn from it.....lets hope it doesnt happen again.

......but you know in the back of your head, it will, in whatever form taken.

Doc Brasso





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Re: December 7th
Posted by omegaslayer on Thu Dec 8th at 5:17am 2005


I know what it is, not many people do. Heres a hint: They made a crapy love story movie out of it.






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Re: December 7th
Posted by Crapceeper on Thu Dec 8th at 9:24am 2005


Romeo and Juliet.

No no. Wait. It's the Titanic. I hate that movie.



Never try to be perfect - just try it and make the best out of it



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Re: December 7th
Posted by Andrei on Thu Dec 8th at 11:06am 2005



Pearl Harbour?






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Re: December 7th
Posted by Underdog on Thu Dec 8th at 12:29pm 2005


? quoting Tracer Bullet
I just wonder how many people know what you're talking about...

Apparently it only took 64 years to become a joke, or almost totally forgotten.

Its sad that December 7th is a date that will live through a "crappy love story movie".

I should have guessed since the 7th was nearly over and nobody said a word.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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Re: December 7th
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Thu Dec 8th at 3:50pm 2005


To be honest, I didn't know. I don't have very many famous dates lodged in my mind. Besides, I'm of the 9/11 generation, not the Pearl Harbor one.




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Re: December 7th
Posted by Underdog on Thu Dec 8th at 3:56pm 2005


? quoting Addicted to Morphine
To be honest, I didn't know. I don't have very many famous dates lodged in my mind. Besides, I'm of the 9/11 generation, not the Pearl Harbor one.

Thankfully, none of us are a "Pearl" generation so thats really no excuse for not knowing. I could excuse a non-American for not grasping the connection but never a native born.

I don't know whats more disturbing. Not knowing the significance, or not caring to know.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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Re: December 7th
Posted by fishy on Thu Dec 8th at 4:48pm 2005


it's all down to politics. japan is a stong player in the world economy, so their shadowy past can be put aside for the sake of the money they can save/generate for the US.

ireland, however, is still a mainly rural place, with less than its fair share of investment, putting it much farther behind japan in order of 'world importance'. this is probably why there's still marching bands being allowed to parade through the defeated peoples streets over 300 years later.

'lest we forget' (if they can't make us rich)




i eat paint



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Re: December 7th
Posted by Underdog on Thu Dec 8th at 4:55pm 2005


I do not hold todays Japan accountable. Still, there is a tragic event to be remembered. I have really only met one Pearl Vet in my whole life so the amount of people alive that were even there is getting pretty slim.

Anyway, I just wanted to clarify that I am not posting this to alienate Japan, just to make people aware. I was surprised that the thread had not already been posted yet is all.

From a militaristic standpoint, I would probably have done the same thing back then as the Japanese did. I would have carried it to the next step and totally wiped out all resistance but as they say, hind sight is 20/20.

The audacity of taking on a superpower in one fell swoop is inspiring.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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Re: December 7th
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Thu Dec 8th at 5:00pm 2005


? quote:
? quoting Addicted to Morphine
To be honest, I didn't know. I don't have very many famous dates lodged in my mind. Besides, I'm of the 9/11 generation, not the Pearl Harbor one.

Thankfully, none of us are a "Pearl" generation so thats really no excuse for not knowing. I could excuse a non-American for not grasping the connection but never a native born.

I don't know whats more disturbing. Not knowing the significance, or not caring to know.



Like I said, I can't remember dates in general, so it's not like I'm attempting to s**t on America.

Additionally, I'm not native born. I was born in Korea, grew up in Japan and the Philippines, and then moved here. I consider myself an American, but perhaps with my personal history as a qualifier you won't hold me to such high standards.

But, putting all that aside, yes I applaud your desire to remind us / make us think about those who have died unjustly. But if that's your goal, then I would point you overseas where thousands die unjustly on a daily basis. If we were to follow the spirit of this thread for them, we'd have new threads almost on a daily basis.




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Re: December 7th
Posted by Underdog on Thu Dec 8th at 8:43pm 2005


? quoting Addicted to Morphine

Like I said, I can't remember dates in general, so it's not like I'm attempting to s**t on America.

Calm down, no one was accusing anyone of s**tting on anyone else.

The event, although it happened on American soil, actually shook the greater part of the world. I just assumed that it was still being taught in history at the very least. The fact that it is pretty old news is a factor for it not being remembered however so I do understand not remembering.

Anyway, I posted the thread to get everyone to ponder. If your idea of pondering is to group ALL tragic events into one pondering thats good too.

When I think of tragedy, its not 9/11 its Dec 7th. So much for the generational gap I suppose.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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Re: December 7th
Posted by Andrei on Thu Dec 8th at 9:06pm 2005


It makes me wonder what tragedy was greater, Hiroshima, where the majority of victims were civilian, or Pearl Harbour.




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Re: December 7th
Posted by wil5on on Thu Dec 8th at 9:09pm 2005


I'd rather think of it like this:

  • 1787 - Delaware becomes the first state to ratify the United States Constitution.
  • 1815 - Michel Ney, Marshal of France, is executed by firing squad, after having been convicted of treason for his support of Napoleon Bonaparte.
  • 1917 - World War I: The United States declares war on Austria-Hungary.
  • 1941 - World War II: Attack On Pearl Harbor - The Imperial Japanese Navy attacks the U.S. Pacific Fleet and its defending Army Air Corps and Marine air forces at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii.
  • 1946 - A fire at the Winecoff Hotel in Atlanta, Georgia kills 119 people.
  • 1949 - Chinese Civil War: The government of the Republic of China moves from Nanking to Taipei.
  • 1965 - Pope Paul VI and Patriarch Athenagoras simultaneously lift mutual excommunications that had been in place since 1054.
  • 1966 - A fire at an army barracks in Erzurum, Turkey kills 68 people.
  • 1972 - Apollo 17, the last Apollo moon mission, is launched. The crew take the photograph known as "The Blue Marble" as they leave the Earth.
  • 1975 - Indonesia invades East Timor.
  • 1982 - In Texas, Charles Brooks, Jr. becomes the first person to be executed by lethal injection in the United States.
  • 1983 - Two jetliners collide at Madrid Barajas International Airport, Madrid killing 93 people.
  • 1987 - PSA Flight 1771 crashes near Paso Robles, California, killing all 43 on board, after a disgruntled passenger shoots his ex-boss on the flight, then shoots both pilots and himself.
  • 1988 - Spitak Earthquake: In Armenia an earthquake measuring 6.9 on the Richter scale kills nearly 25,000, injures 15,000 and leaves 400,000 homeless.
  • 1988 - Yasser Arafat recognizes the right of Israel to exist.
  • 2004 - Hamid Karzai is inaugurated as President of Afghanistan.
  • 2005 - Rigoberto Alpizar, a passenger on American Airlines Flight 924 who claimed to have a bomb, is shot and killed by a team of U.S. federal air marshals at Miami International Airport.
  • Some very important things happened on December 7. One of those was the attack on Pearl Harbor. While the attack itself did have a major impact on world history, so did the events in 1787, 1917, 1975, and 1988, and who can say what else had a major effect on world history. Perhaps one of the people killed in one of the above events would have been the next Hitler, or Gandhi.

    If youre going to observe this day as a day when people were killed, there are other days when more people died. If youre going to observe this day as a turning point in history, you might as well observe every moment as a turning point in history. If Rigoberto Alpizar had taken his medication that day, he could still be alive, and who knows what impact his death will have.




    "If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?"
    - My yr11 Economics teacher



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    Re: December 7th
    Posted by Underdog on Thu Dec 8th at 9:37pm 2005


    You know, pondering used to be more silent. I understand and you all have good points but why point out what we are not thinking of as if it overshadows what the thread is about?

    Yes, there are many significant events on Dec 7th but if they were important then why didn't you begin a thread about them first? Why turn my thread into something that could be construed as if I were unfeeling or uncaring about all those other events?

    Yesterday was December the 7th. Today is December 8th. I am betting something major happened today as well why not have a thread each and every day dedicated to events on that date?

    Jeez guys. It was a moment of ponderance, not a time to point out exactly what was overlooked.

    I would say that in their own way Hiroshima and Pearl are about even. The Japanese civilians would have followed their Emperor unto death anyway so killing them then instead of waiting for them to be conscripted might have saved more lives in the end. Who knows?




    There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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    Re: December 7th
    Posted by Myrk- on Thu Dec 8th at 10:36pm 2005


    Well its not celebrated here in the UK. It can't be that important.


    -[Better to be Honest than Kind]-




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