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 Re: Munich
Posted by Orpheus on Thu Dec 29th at 1:47am 2005

Gods beware. If I knew that me posting would have pulled you out of retirement Obie, I might have considered returning months ago.

I am kinda thinking along the same lines as Fish, at least at this point in the discussion. I have always wondered why people see things differently between locking them up as opposed to killing them outright.

I dunno. I am still to tired to be as coherent as I would wish. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/sad.gif">

Anyway, Fish makes a good point.

I do however see your point too Obie. I believe the cost however is inflated due to the processes involved and not the actual proving. I mean, we are talking about the same sort of people who pay 50 bucks for a hammer for Christ sakes.

The "Process of obtaining" is only costly because the powers that be want it to be so. If it were cheaper then we would be back to the "Judge Roy Beans" now wouldn't we? I mean seriously, if it was any cheaper the death penalty would be much more commonplace than it currently is.

I do not really want it to increase, just to be more accurate whenever it is used.





The best things in life, aren't things.



Quote
 Re: Munich
Posted by Dr Brasso on Thu Dec 29th at 6:19am 2005

time to start some s**t here....

revenge in wartime.....good for the soul
revenge can be usefull, when applied correctly
murder....we'll assume we all think its wrong
death penalty....when needed

ok. i submit that you compare this countries crimerates to others, with and without the death penalty, and you should note two thing straight away....the US goes to greater lengths than any other to provide all opportunities to produce innocence after conviction in capital cases.the amount of people we commit to death is sparse comparably, and the justice is as true as its ever been anywhere in the world. nobody bats a thousand, but we have a helluva lot better batting avereage than most.

in my youth, an eye for an eye would have been my stock and trade....as i grow older, and see the associated bulls**t grow exponentially ahead of the crimes, more and more "innocent" folks get off, and the general breakdown of the system due to slick f**kers with no real moral compass, i think the death penalty could actually be enforced a bit more ridgedly, and streamlined....

herd em thru like cattle....you murder, yer convicted, you die. end of story.

**dons baseball catchers mask and chest protector, and awaits the onslaught.

Doc Brasso...

as for the movie, i havent seen it yet. but i was in frankfurt, germany when this all went on. and i remember it like it was yesterday. they will have to do well to impress me, no pompousity intended.





Quote
 Re: Munich
Posted by Orpheus on Thu Dec 29th at 1:31pm 2005

I agree with you Doc on all save this part:

? quote:
the US goes to greater lengths than any other to provide all opportunities to produce innocence after conviction in capital cases

I have never seen, nor read any comparative analysis on this statement. Nor have I heard that we are anywhere near the top in reliability.

I have heard some pretty evil rumors about Texas however so the comment is at least prideful in nature. I can understand pride. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

I do believe the judicial system is fundamentally flawed. When drug user women can retain custody of their children just because they have a vagina, something is wrong. AND, thats a relatively minor example!!





The best things in life, aren't things.



Quote
 Re: Munich
Posted by Dr Brasso on Thu Dec 29th at 2:22pm 2005

well, to be honest there big jon, i wasnt actually looking at a comparative analysis as i wrote my comments....just going from experience....a couple of quick examples....

middle east....steal something lose a hand....steal again, lose the other....go for a third, lose yer life.....at least it used to be just that way.

japan....we were docked in sasabo...a crewmember got busted with a gram of hash, by the japanese police, and he was still in the can when i got out 3 1/2 years later.

phillipines 1978....the poor starving orphaned kids used to sometimes stick together in gangs, so-to-speak. im on shore leave in olongapo city, with a bunch of my buddies. one of these "gangs" came upon 3 marines also on leave walking down magsaisai blvd, the main drag in the bar district. on of the kids gets their attention, and all start poking the marines incessantly to the point where they dont know where to cover or what is going on....while they are "protecting" themselves, at least three of these kids are snatching the wallets, watxhes, etc, whatevever they can snap up. and they split, full sprint down the street. the marines start yelling, and amidst the crowd, a phillipine cop, steps out in the street, turns, draws a bead on one of the kids, and drops him like a hot rock from about a hundred yards....center mass, heart shot...walks to him rolls him over, takes a wallet etc from the kid, gives it to the marines, and moves on. i couldnt believe what i just saw. niether could the marines. everyone was freakin' the f**k out....

the kid was 12 years old.

just a few to give visual. im old, ive seen alot of s**t.

but, you make a good point, when a person gives a statement as "factual", ya better be able to back it up. jon, i know you know what im talking about, as from what i can tell, you are the only other "old fart" in here these days...

the point is, we work to make sure we dont have the wrong guy....the instances are rare, no matter what the liberal whiney f**kers will have you believe....do the research folks, the facts are there for all to see....

to be continued....

Doc B...





Quote
 Re: Munich
Posted by Orpheus on Thu Dec 29th at 2:54pm 2005

Your example are admittedly harsh, but clearly only examples of harsh after the sentence is commuted. (I think thats the word I want)

Your previous comments centered on the before stage of the process. The two are interconnected to be sure but still separate entities.

I believe that harsh can work to stem the flow of lawlessness, but only when handled properly. IE, if it is proved beyond all doubt that someone murdered someone else, then the only recourse is capitol punishment. The only reason capitol punishment doesn't truly work as a deterrent is because the process of proving is weak. Some innocents get the death sentence and some guilty go free. People see this, people KNOW it and people disregard it as a deterrent.

Again, your examples between the two postings do not necessarily belong together as proof that our system goes the full 9 yards in every attempt at proving guilt or innocence. THAT was my only point. I wasn't saying you were erroneous in your replies.

And, I sure as hell hope we get some more old farts soon as I am about tired of being in the minority around here.





The best things in life, aren't things.



Quote
 Re: Munich
Posted by French Toast on Thu Dec 29th at 3:17pm 2005

Well, here in tame Canada there's no death penalty, so I do'nt need to worry much <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">




Quote
 Re: Munich
Posted by Dr Brasso on Thu Dec 29th at 3:33pm 2005

agreed jon, i suppose im not really making the case very well....im not qualified to site case laws or precedents, but as "old farts" go, im pretty damn qualified...

i guess a synopsis of what im trying to convey would be basicly, pound for pound, we do better than most(i really cant think of a system thats better) in going the extra mile......s**t....deathrow inmates sitting for 23 years waiting is absof**kinglutely ridiculous...the system is flawed yes.....but as i said, its still the best ive ever encountered.

i reiterate....

the point is, we work to make sure we dont have the wrong guy....the instances are rare, no matter what the liberal whiney f**kers will have you believe....do the research folks, the facts are there for all to see....

? posted by French Toast

Well, here in tame Canada there's no death penalty, so I do'nt need to worry much

toasty, to me, that would be a good example of what NOT to do....

Doc B...

***repositions catchers mask





Quote
 Re: Munich
Posted by Orpheus on Thu Dec 29th at 3:36pm 2005

? quoting Dr Brasso

? posted by French Toast

Well, here in tame Canada there's no death penalty, so I do'nt need to worry much

toasty, to me, that would be a good example of what NOT to do....

Doc B...

Agreed.





The best things in life, aren't things.



Quote
 Re: Munich
Posted by French Toast on Thu Dec 29th at 4:00pm 2005

Silly americans, there's no crime in Canada. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">




Quote
 Re: Munich
Posted by Orpheus on Thu Dec 29th at 4:07pm 2005

? quoting French Toast
Silly americans, there's no crime in Canada.

Tells me that there is either no reason for criminals to be there or the word hasn't gotten out yet that you all are so ready for them to arrive.

Perhaps I should begin a campaign to inform them that Canada is the place to be and perhaps thin our criminal element down a bit.

Personally, I am leaning toward the former. What, if anything is there up there to entice a criminal?

You will never convince me in a million years that Canada has no crime because THEY are doing something right to prevent it.

ONLY law abiding citizens obey the law!!!





The best things in life, aren't things.



Quote
 Re: Munich
Posted by satchmo on Thu Dec 29th at 4:41pm 2005

? quote:
it is my understanding that it actually costs less to support a criminal for their whole life in prison than it does to go through the process of obtaining the death penalty...

I've heard the same. My brother thinks it's true too, and he's a lawyer.

Now, bringing the discussion to a more frivilous level, I thought several scenes of "Munich" look disconcertingly similar to rounds of Counter-Strike. My perspective of reality is quite distorted--real-life events start to look like the game, instead of the other way around. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">


"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



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 Re: Munich
Posted by Dr Brasso on Thu Dec 29th at 5:14pm 2005

satch...yer starting to worry me bud.....<img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_lol.gif">

does yer wife sleep with a can of mace yet??.... <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/heee.gif">

Doc B...:dodgy:





Quote
 Re: Munich
Posted by satchmo on Thu Dec 29th at 6:02pm 2005

No. No mace.

Just a loaded Deagle under the pillow. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">


"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



Quote
 Re: Munich
Posted by Andrei on Thu Dec 29th at 6:11pm 2005

The next "stage" would be seeing people in work over-alls running around chaotically and occasionally getting stuck behind boxes or in corners.
I see that all the time.




Quote
 Re: Munich
Posted by Dr Brasso on Thu Dec 29th at 6:18pm 2005

roflmao @ andrei

Doc B...:dodgy:





Quote
 Re: Munich
Posted by satchmo on Thu Dec 29th at 7:00pm 2005

I am not seeing things yet.

But everytime I turn a corner at work, I jump up to avoid getting a headshot. I know people stare, but at least I have total pwnage.


"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



Quote
 Re: Munich
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Thu Dec 29th at 7:59pm 2005

"out of retirement" is probably a bit strong. I'm around some, but I'm uber busy with school (yes, again, for five more years!!). I just post when I see a person/topic that piques my interest.





Quote
 Re: Munich
Posted by Nickelplate on Fri Dec 30th at 4:14am 2005

I think getting raped in the bum with a broom handle every day is worse than death...

that's just me, though...




I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



Quote
 Re: Munich
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Jan 1st at 8:41pm 2006

? quoting Nickelplate
I think getting raped in the bum with a broom handle every day is worse than death...

that's just me, though...

You know what though? Most of the creaps doing the f**king are the same assholes we are discussing Nickel. Ever consider that? Maybe they like buttpokin. Somehow I find it difficult to believe that every murderer is being butt jacked.

And, Tracer, it is nice to see you, just in case someone forgot to mention that before.





The best things in life, aren't things.




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