Posted by Forceflow on Fri Jan 20th at 12:34pm 2006
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Posted by Tracer Bullet on Fri Jan 20th at 1:24pm 2006
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Posted by DrGlass on Fri Jan 20th at 1:27pm 2006
You cant do s**t like this with Journalist (as seen last year). Google has no obligation to give anything to the government unless google held some kind of information about a murder.
Google is a look inside peoples minds, its our inner thoughts, what we think about, what we want to know more about. That isn't the Governments to take.
Just a few more years untill we are a complete Police/Oligarchy state.
I respect Google for not bending to the will of big brother like MICROSOFT and Yahoo.
This whole world is doomed.
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Posted by Orpheus on Fri Jan 20th at 2:02pm 2006
As with any system, it can/could be abused. That said, I firmly believe, perhaps naively so, that ONLY guilty people have concerns. I have always believed that people ARE fundamentally stupid. 99.9% of everything stupid has people doing it.
Traffic jams, people lane swapping cause it.
90% of auto accidents, stupid actions cause them.
Range fires, Stupid people again.
Litter, more stupid people
disaster areas, even MORE stupid people.
People on some level are stupid about many issues. Not every people is stupid about the same issues of course but on a certain plateau, all people are about equally stupid. They just divide the percentages around to their own life styles.
Now here. Google just so happens to be on the side that sees negative connotations. They probably are among the percentage of folks who like thieves feel that everyone steals, or liars who think everyone lies. If someone is searching for something wrong, then by all means wrong things will show up in the database. Trade secrets? like Moguls are using Google to see the price of pork bellies on the wall street stock exchange? Gimme a break.
People NEED big brother mentalities. I do NOT like the concept but I am basically a realist and can envision the need to have it. Every good thing has some stupid people abusing it. ![]()
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Posted by fishy on Fri Jan 20th at 2:41pm 2006
i can understand someone, living in a country that voted bush into power, thinking that people are inherently stupid. but that aside, the US gov has no right to know what i've searched for on the net. i'd find that just as objectionable as the police banging on my door, demanding to search my house without a search warrant. maybe some people would say that i've got something to hide, but like Orph says, people will judge my actions by their own standards, not mine.
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Fri Jan 20th at 2:47pm 2006
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Posted by Orpheus on Fri Jan 20th at 2:52pm 2006
I just want to clarify that I do not like the concept. It has side effects that are detrimental to many innocents. I am however aware that criminal will demand the same rights as non-criminals in spite of the fact that in most cases the criminals infringed on someones rights in becoming a criminal.
Realistically speaking, its a sad fact that innocent people will be harmed in the course of capturing misuse of certain events. If one criminal is brought to justice by employing a big brother action, then the unfortunate injustice of the innocent can at least be justified. To an extent anyway. I would absolutely HATE for someone to come into my home without a warrant, but I would not blame the enforcers. I would blame the criminals who created the need for such an event. In the end, they would find only a poor mans home without any criminal intent or paraphernalia and I would be left with nothing more than hurt pride and a major inconvenience of the act.
Again, only guilt need worry.
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Posted by fraggard on Fri Jan 20th at 2:55pm 2006
[snip]
People NEED big brother mentalities. I do NOT like the concept but I am basically a realist and can envision the need to have it. Every good thing has some stupid people abusing it.
It's the other .1 % who matter... only that .1 % can make a difference to fix what's wrong, and no government wants that.
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Posted by Orpheus on Fri Jan 20th at 3:01pm 2006
It's the other .1 % who matter... only that .1 % can make a difference to fix what's wrong, and no government wants that.
I read this multiple times. Care to expand on it a bit to prevent misinterpretations?
You do realize that when I quote numbers, I am just using my opinion of the numbers. In other words "ball park" numbers to illustrate my intent? There are no real facts behind my claims of the 99.9%....
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Posted by fraggard on Fri Jan 20th at 3:28pm 2006
What I'm trying to say is that these over-reaching measures don't help in any way. All they do is harm people who legitimately need that information. I don't follow american politics too closely, but your DHS, no-fly lists, wiretaps, etc are basically only getting in the way of your daily life. This will be like that too.
Just to give you a contrived example, the terrorists aren't going to be searching for terms like "how to build a backpack nuke for chicago"... but a sociology student's queries about jihad and islamic law might well be picked up and put him on some list somewhere that blacklists him for life.
Your belief that only the guilty need worry, i think, shows that you have a very unshakeable faith in your country's administrative policies. That may be true now, but you may need to think about the future when this same information could be used against you... I do not trust anyone enough to leave my future in their hands.
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Posted by Andrei on Fri Jan 20th at 3:34pm 2006
Nooooooo, of course not! What could possibly be violating in someone looking at my attempts to find some pr0n and having my IP and ISP right next to the entries?
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Jan 20th at 3:42pm 2006
I do not trust anyone enough to leave my future in their hands.
The unshakable truth is, the future will be there when you arrive Fragman. The best that you can hope for is to be there when it arrives. The older I get, the more attuned to the fact of how inconsequential I am in the grand scheme. My only hope is to remain faithful to myself and hope that others continue to view me in the same light.
I know what you are saying and believe me I understand it. I also believe that in some/many cases, the end justifies the means. If a student is searching out legitimate items for a research paper, it will show up as such because there will be no history of mal-intent from that student. I frequent sites (or did when I had DSL) that had pron as a part of its content. I was not there for the naked bodies. I was there for... other questionable content. I would probably be on a list for nakedness, but my visits would undoubtedly be confirmed to the other content I was really after. (to some, just as wrong I grant)
In the end, I am a staunch believer that you yourself will prove your position and that if you need the info on a backpack H-bomb, that it will show that it is a school dissertation project and not a true terrorist one.
I hope that made sense... In the end, read my signature. I believe it with all my heart.
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Posted by Forceflow on Fri Jan 20th at 3:42pm 2006
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Posted by jeffjohnvol on Fri Jan 20th at 5:06pm 2006
I don't have a huge problem with the US government seeing it if its for something critical to stop a terrorist or something, but if Google were to give in here could China or Equador do the same thing? The USA says they want to maintain control over ICANN, which I believe they should being one of the few countries that protects free speech as much as we do, but if Google gave all the information to US and not to China, Japan, or Iran, the idiots in France would be demanding UN control again. And don't even get me started on that. Hell, in France its illegal to say the word diaper or email.
Edit: I realize that Google is not the "internet", but it is the largest search engine and is the gateway much of it.
Posted by fraggard on Fri Jan 20th at 5:22pm 2006
[snip]
In the end, read my signature. I believe it with all my heart.
OK, so maybe there are no right ways to do the wrong thing. I think the more important issue here is: are there any wrong ways of doing the right thing? Is there a "wrong" way of researching that sociology project? Because your post seems to imply that there is. Maybe I'm reading too much into what you posted, but you seem to think that one must follow some specific set of government-ordained rules for any task 1, and breaking those rules leads to punishment...
Does the end always justify the means, or is it just when it benefits the powers that be?
1: I know there are rules for how research is carried out, but they're not set down by arbitrary politicos, and that's not relevant here.
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Posted by jeffjohnvol on Fri Jan 20th at 6:32pm 2006
Posted by fishy on Fri Jan 20th at 6:57pm 2006
what about putting cameras into every library in the world, so the US gov can see what books people browse. or microphones in every house so they can hear if anyone is plotting against them.
is there any real difference?
Posted by Andrei on Fri Jan 20th at 7:13pm 2006
How about counters mounted at the tip of the penis, to measure the effects of the pr0n I mentioned earlier?
The solution is this one, though: turning everyone into stalker-like creatures.
Posted by fishy on Fri Jan 20th at 7:16pm 2006
Posted by Andrei on Fri Jan 20th at 7:34pm 2006
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