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What is legal/illeagal with copying
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 Re: What is legal/illeagal with copying
Posted by Y2kBen_2000 on Fri Feb 3rd at 4:37am 2006

http://www.snarkpit.net/forums.php?forum=1&topic=6480&9

I noticed that the reason the "DVD back-up" thread was locked because it was implied that copy theatrical movies for privatly backing up was illeagal. It is actually legal to break the encryption and back up yourprivate copies of movie. Many people seem to missinturpret that, though. It was settled with the dispute companies had over the invention of the VCR.

Copyright law states that you can leagally copy an owned copy of another persons work for the purpose of making back-up's, as long as you own the origanal copy. (example: you don't want dvd to get scratched up from age, so you copy it and place the origanal in safe storage.)

It is illeagal once you start to share or give the copy to friends or extended family . In many cases, the sharing of recorded tv shows with nearby friends is often ignored.

What was being discussed in the locked forum was not vague about copying, the title clearly stated it was intended for the purposes of "back-up". Orpheus was not discussing anything illeagal, by law. (The entertainment companies, however, really hate the "back-up" exception in the law because they want you to by more instead of replacing one back up with another. That's why they go through the trouble of licensing copy protection software.)

Hope that clears some things up.

[edit]
I don't want to point the blame finger, but Gwil was in the wrong. However, Gwil is a moderator so he has the right to close whatever thread he deams unacceptable. He and the other moderators don't want this forum closed. However, I just hope this forum doesn't end up like others were moderators censor everything, without fully think it through.



You know, I've actually got nothing to say



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 Re: What is legal/illeagal with copying
Posted by French Toast on Fri Feb 3rd at 4:59am 2006

I deny everything.




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 Re: What is legal/illeagal with copying
Posted by Gwil on Fri Feb 3rd at 6:55am 2006

There have been similar threads in the past. I know it was discussing backup, but knowing how both Crono and Orpheus spend their money, the likelihood of it being about backing up legitimate personal copies is slim to none.

I'm just following the line we have always had in the past - IMO, it was too close to advocating and advising on piracy. If you wish to discuss those things, you should do it outside of the General forum - email, messenger, for instance.

Things rarely get closed on here - this thread served to make a useful example of "don't talk about piracy", a rarity in that the subject will always attract moderator attention, and a good opportunity to highlight it to newer members.




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 Re: What is legal/illeagal with copying
Posted by Y2kBen_2000 on Fri Feb 3rd at 7:57am 2006

For some reason, this last post made me think about the terms of use page, and I noticed that there is not a relitivly quik way, if any, to get to it. I have noticed that most other forums have a link right next to their forum link for the terms of use. I guese this shows how much the people here at the Snarkpit are trusted, but then again, there are well over 3000 registrations.

But I wasn't trying to sound mean when I said gwil was in the wrong. I just like to clear up situations whn the time is right. This is one statement that has led many to question "how much is too far?" It'd be nice, though, to maybe have a page that said what topics we could and couldn't talk about, for the sake of the "pit".

You really have to think about what kind of world we live in today. One in which everybody fears everyone is willing to steal their work to a point where it brings a downfall upon themselves. But then again, without restrictions, would the downfall have already happened?



You know, I've actually got nothing to say



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 Re: What is legal/illeagal with copying
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Feb 3rd at 11:05am 2006

Since there is no legal reason to have an MP3 I will insist that all talk abouut Ipods and the acquisition of MP3's be locked henceforth.

At least backing up a DVD is still a DVD. Changing a song format TO MP3 is wrong.

I, back up DVD's.

Their source is of nobodies concern.

/story





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 Re: What is legal/illeagal with copying
Posted by mazemaster on Fri Feb 3rd at 1:16pm 2006

It is a sad state of affairs when the MPAA has convinced the general population that the only reason to rip a dvd is to pirate it.


http://maze5.net



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 Re: What is legal/illeagal with copying
Posted by 7dk2h4md720ih on Fri Feb 3rd at 1:29pm 2006

? quote:

At least backing up a DVD is still a DVD. Changing a song format TO MP3 is wrong.


Why is it wrong to change the format of a song?



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 Re: What is legal/illeagal with copying
Posted by Gwil on Fri Feb 3rd at 1:52pm 2006

? quote:
It is a sad state of affairs when the MPAA has convinced the general population that the only reason to rip a dvd is to pirate it.


Who rips their entire DVD collection for "backup" purposes? Come on, honestly.

I just took a dislike to the implications and direction of circumventing anti-copying devices on the discs, and subsequent naming of films - both were mentioned in the thread.

As for mp3? Nobody has thusfar mentioned mp3 downloading or directed people on how to get hold of mp3s (not to my knowledge at least, and not in a direct fashion anyhow) - and I find it highly likely that the large proportion of people on here who discuss music will legitimately buy their CD's (as I do).

Also, mp3s aren't a questionable source because, we cannot prove one way or another that the use didn't buy them off the internet. I know this is also the case for the film piracy issue i've hinted at here - you could own them legally - but I'd wager good money that you don't.

Also, text such as this:

? quote:
Flight plan wasn't the isse.. It was no issue at all.

It was the new zorro.

Problem solved.


Does nothing to help in my decision to lock a thread - and whatever, I stand by my decision to close it.

[edit - going by the IMDB reviews, knowledge of peoples circumstances and general taste in film, I find it also a stretch of the imagination that anyone would actually buy Flightplan, let alone "back it up"]

[edit 2 -

? quote:
Anyway, try copying Flight Plan, then say dvd shrink can compress anything
]

Prosecution rests, your honour.




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 Re: What is legal/illeagal with copying
Posted by Myrk- on Fri Feb 3rd at 2:34pm 2006

I'm curious. Say you buy loads of DVD's, make some legal copies for backup. You then sell the original DVD's. Are you copies now illegal?




-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-



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 Re: What is legal/illeagal with copying
Posted by Gwil on Fri Feb 3rd at 2:39pm 2006

I think so yeah, as technically no money is going back to the studio for the second sale.

Not sure - because second hand video shops obviously make their money too, but they have originals only. *shrugs*




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 Re: What is legal/illeagal with copying
Posted by French Toast on Fri Feb 3rd at 3:19pm 2006

? quote:
At least backing up a DVD is still a DVD. Changing a song format TO MP3 is wrong.


I disagree. There's nothing wrong with it. When I rip CD's, I use the software that came with my mp3 player because it changes the format to mp3. It doesn't make any sense to have less songs when my legal software will do it from my legally bought CD.




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 Re: What is legal/illeagal with copying
Posted by Y2kBen_2000 on Fri Feb 3rd at 6:27pm 2006

All copyright law says is if you own the origanal, you can make a private copy. Mp3's, cd's, dvd's, whatever.

Which makes me ask ya'll, do you think if an Earth and Beyond emulator was built, would you count it as illegal even though no one is making or losing profits. EA has struck forth be refusing to supply the network encryption on the game, but have yet to0 stand up and stop the current emulator being built. Are they willing to let people raise a dead mmo with out consiquences?

Now here's the link to their forum, but take note. They've not succesfully emulated it yet, there's not even a playable single character version yet. So that does not technically make a LOCK or delete. Have a look around.

www.enbemulator.com



You know, I've actually got nothing to say



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 Re: What is legal/illeagal with copying
Posted by Gwil on Fri Feb 3rd at 6:31pm 2006

Please just leave it.






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 Re: What is legal/illeagal with copying
Posted by Y2kBen_2000 on Fri Feb 3rd at 6:33pm 2006

I'm done, for now at least.

Got an EVE trial with my name all over. See ya in 14 days.



You know, I've actually got nothing to say



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 Re: What is legal/illeagal with copying
Posted by Gwil on Fri Feb 3rd at 6:35pm 2006

For now at least? You're done full stop.

Don't try and make a contest of what should/shouldn't be locked, i'm not changing my stance nor will I baited into locking threads because of links posted in them.







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 Re: What is legal/illeagal with copying
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Feb 3rd at 7:32pm 2006

I will let this alone, BUT I have s**tloads to say. If any thread is ever locked again, while simultaneously slapping me across the mouth without my having any hopes of defending myself I will throw a s**tfit from hell.

If that is not clear enough, I will gladly make it crystal clear.

Topic about backing up my collection, is dropped.

Continue discussion, at your own risk!





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: What is legal/illeagal with copying
Posted by Gwil on Fri Feb 3rd at 7:33pm 2006

<img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif">




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 Re: What is legal/illeagal with copying
Posted by mazemaster on Fri Feb 3rd at 7:42pm 2006

? quote:

Who rips their entire DVD collection for "backup" purposes? Come on, honestly.


Me. And not just for backup. In my dorm room I don't have a TV, so I play all my movies off my computer. It is much nicer to have all my dvds on my hard drive than to search around for the disk, and then sit through the forced previews, not be able to skip to a time as easily, etc.

Disk space is cheap, hard drive seek time is fast, transporting an external HD is easier than transporting a crapload of DVD's, and the searching and organizing capabilities of a computer are unparalleled. I'm surprised that everyone doesn't rip their DVD's to disk.

Your argument also fails to realize the most basic point - in order to rip a DVD to disk in a way that requires decryption, first you need to actually _have_ the origional (legal) DVD.


http://maze5.net



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 Re: What is legal/illeagal with copying
Posted by Gwil on Fri Feb 3rd at 7:46pm 2006

Whatever - I made several arguments, including knowing the situations of both the people and the movies in question being utter turd. Also I used the quote about copying.

I knew some points I was making assumptions (and I believe they are correct, and the right ones to make in the interests of anti-piracy action) so I made sure I can still justify locking the thread against nitpicking of my argument.

Legalese!

Whatever happens, the thread is locked. TBH this wouldn't have even been discussed had this thread not been made - I know the 2 participants hadn't said anything. It's only getting life from people trying to stir up "what is piracy/what needs to be locked" debate. I deemed it should be locked, it was locked.

See that how you like but I stand by my decision.




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 Re: What is legal/illeagal with copying
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Feb 3rd at 7:50pm 2006

I would like to make one small point. Wal-Mart sells fairly new DVD's 2 for $11.00.

At that price, its worth collecting originals (which I do)

That said, I get so tired of family borrowing my disks and hurting them. Now, its not in my nature to say "NO" to them, so to avoid any hurt feelings I make copies for borrowing purposes.

I am rich enough to afford 11 bucks. I am not rich enough to buy them many times.

I am still a bit miffed for the insult in the previous thread, especially when I was named personally, and Crono was the one who accidentally got the thread locked. (nothing personal Crono)

I backup ALL my disks and some are a bitch. It would not bode well to insinuate otherwise.





The best things in life, aren't things.




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