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Would you Punish, or Pray?
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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Orpheus on Mon Mar 6th at 12:32am 2006

Personally, I grow weary of the constant debating over religion and politics. I feel its time for a moral debate. I fear that politics and religion will infest the debate yet again, but I will chance it.

The moral debate this time is "What should be done with/to people who knowingly pass on a sexually transmitted disease?"

Many people do this daily. They keep the knowledge that they have Herpes, or Aids, or any plethora of contagious diseases to themselves.

What should be done when the are caught?

If you like, you can broaden this to any disease as long as its passed on knowingly.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Dr Brasso on Mon Mar 6th at 12:45am 2006

you ole' s**tstarter you....<img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_lol.gif"> jk....

i had to vote other....depending on the circumstances, let the punishment fit the crime....to be continued when i have a bit to ponder it...

Doc...:dodgy:





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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by ReNo on Mon Mar 6th at 12:58am 2006

How do you prove that they were knowingly doing it? I mean, some STDs are less...advertising of their presence than others after all, and ignorance, while often a fairly lame/token excuse, is a legitimate one in some cases. I also don't think that this is a one size fits all scenario - having unprotected sex knowing you have AIDS is far worse than, say, having unprotected sex knowing you have crabs (perhaps a bad example, given that protection isn't exactly much help there!). I vote other for this reason.



Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net



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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Orpheus on Mon Mar 6th at 1:13am 2006

I deliberately phrased the question "knowingly" for a reason. To pass on something unknowingly is not nearly the same. There are some instances even I can envision where you could have something and not be aware of it. Lets try to discount ALL unknowing scenarios please. I would be willing to continue this with the unknowingly scenario "IF" it doesn't retract from the polls intention. This poll is an opinion based question on what should be done to the Typhoid Mary's out there. SHE KNEW what she was doing I might add.



The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Mon Mar 6th at 1:14am 2006

I voted other for the same reasons as Doc and ReNo.

Obviously, its morally wrong to spread STDs (or STI's as they are now known), but as for punishment, it'd have to be done on a case by case basis, and proving the person knowingly passed on an STI would be pretty hard.




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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by French Toast on Mon Mar 6th at 1:16am 2006

Trees.




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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Nickelplate on Mon Mar 6th at 1:17am 2006

I chose "other" because my choice isn't up there.

Here's the thing: They should make STD-having ppl register like sex offenders. If sex is going to become such a commonplace thing, i.e. "booty-calls," "hooking up" for one night and all that, why not take it a step further and just have a card that you have to show before you have sex. I mean, most people nowadays would say that sex is not something confined to marriage, and it doesn't have to be with someone you know and all that garbage, so why not flash a card before you get it on? that way if he or she sees that you have chlamydia, they don't have to risk getting it.

If the government is going to start putting chips in everyone and keeping track of everything anyway, why not make a nightly pathogen check that would update your chip with your disease information. That way, you don't have to go to the doctor, and it will update to a satelite, so you don't have to hook up to any messy wires.

This takes away the problem of whether they KNOW or not. AND most ppl would not risk AIDS or anything just so they can have one night of enjoyment that a few minutes ago seemed consequence-free.




I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Orpheus on Mon Mar 6th at 1:36am 2006

You guys do realize that with only 6 options that a controversial topic of this type cannot have but 6.. Right?

I do not mind you voting other, as long as you say why.

My personally belief is, if you knowingly doing it, you should be punished. Period.

The punishment should fit the crime however. Obviously, a death dealing disease deserves a life sentence and something that can be gotten rid of with a shot in the ol' butt a milder sentence.

Now, if you are hung on the "knowingly" part, well, I cannot seriously come up with a solution to your dilemma. IMO, there has to be some history to a disease. Take my brother for instance. He now knows for certain that he has a communicable STD. He claims he didn't before, but now he knows for certain. Yet, he tells none of his partners.

Another for instance. There has got to be some sort of a record keeping system at the doctor of choice. From the point of "confirmed' onward, THATS knowingly.

We could stretch this out all day into "unknowingly" but thats not the goal here.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by 7dk2h4md720ih on Mon Mar 6th at 1:42am 2006

I don't understand why "Pray for them" is an option, please explain.



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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Nickelplate on Mon Mar 6th at 1:48am 2006

? quoting TwoKnives
I don't understand why "Pray for them" is an option, please explain.

That pretty much means "Do what they do now." pretty much NOTHING in the eyes of the world. To Christians like myself, Prayer can be a powerful tool, but to most ppl I think it's wasted breath.




I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Orpheus on Mon Mar 6th at 2:10am 2006

? quoting TwoKnives
I don't understand why "Pray for them" is an option, please explain.

Dave, you know me. I only added it out of respect to my friends who believe that might be an option. I couldn't very well have 6 options of castration after all.

I may not believe in God, but I have many friends who do so I added it for them.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Dr Brasso on Mon Mar 6th at 2:13am 2006

ok.....ive pondered a bit...

heres the deal....for me, its pretty cut and dried...knowingly giving someone an std should be a crime....now, having said that, proof might be hard to come by, especially if it is boiled down to "he said, she said"....so....once proven, punishment should ensue....

problem ... should a person who knowingly passes on the clap get the same sentence as a person passing the aids virus, or some such similarly deadly strain of sheite....? i think not....claps curable, aids is an eventual death sentence, even with all the c**ktails available these days....i have a brother who has been hiv positive for nearly 18 years, has aids, and is actually pretty damn healthy, all things considered....

my first 2 cents... <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_lol.gif">

Doc B...:dodgy:





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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Loco on Mon Mar 6th at 8:34am 2006

This is a really interesting topic. I voted "Imprison for a time" on the basis of a process of elimination. Firstly, I believe there has to be some form of punishment, so unfortunately praying and forgiveness aren't appropriate (IMHO, of course). If it was knowingly, then they acted with some form of malice or at the very least selfishness.

Hanging is capital punishment, which I'm afraid I disagree with on the basis it is the one punishment which cannot be undone - Whilst a prison sentence can be ended if some contradictory evidence is found etc, you can't bring someone back to life. Of course there are situations where people are obviously guilty or plead guilty, but if you work on that basis then someone just has to plead not guilty to avoid the death penalty.

Finally, if there is to be some reformation of their character, then their must be some faith that the person will eventually be responsible enough to not repeat the offence - demonstrated by not imprisoning them for the rest of their life. Whilst prison acts as both retribution and prevention (revenge for the victim and preventing the criminal from having contact with society), there must be a reformative element as well - a long term prevention without over-crowding prisons if you like.

Of course, this is all my own theories and opinions. Feel free to completely disagree with them! <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

One final note. For comparison, try this slightly absurd example as a comparison:-
X has a knife permanently attached to his forearm, and knows this. He then hugs Y, stabs him in the back as a result (having known that this would happen), and Y dies. What should be done? How does this compare with Orph's main question?


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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Crono on Mon Mar 6th at 9:06am 2006

Proof is the key here.

I mean think about it. For them to be guilty they have to know they had the disease and were passing it on ... how will you prove they knew besides a physician file saying so, with a note that the patient was notified ... or them admitting it, which isn't the bulk of people who pass these things on (unless you're in Africa, no offense or anything).

How can you prove something like that? It isn't like a crime of passion or something where evidence can be left behind.

Are you going to have a witness? "I saw the std travel through the vaginal walls and up his urethra" Or vice versa.

You can't use lie detectors, since they are reliable in some cases, but not in most (which is why they don't use them for official evidence).

You can't probe people's minds.

You can't really restrict a person from doing things if the other person consents ... You're not even considering if the person that contracts it knew as well.

Too many factors. We couldn't pin an obvious murder on O.J., but, we'll be damned as hell if we can't catch individuals who spread STDs. image

Now, if someone admits to this, yes, there should be a punishment. But, like most criminals ... I doubt they'd admit it.

I mean, I agree it'd be nice to be able to do something, but it'd also be nice to punish people for emotional abuse ... but we really can't unless it results in some physical harm in the other person. (Seeing how many women you can sleep with and kick to the curb, for example, in my opinion should be punishable by law ... regardless if you're a minor or not. You "know better" past the age of 10 - 13)

The only other option is to treat it the same way they treat a minor and adult sleeping together. Which isn't always the best idea, because no one was hurt and it was completely consenting on both ends ... but ... "the law is the law", right?
In that case it wouldn't matter if you knew or not. You'd be busted ... but someone would still have to come forward and complain. And I gotta tell you, as I've learned, it's mostly people who have nothing to do with the situation that do that. It might turn out a little differently when dealing with something such as AIDs, but it'd still be along those lines.

But, I think, if you can prove it, in this highly unlikely hypothetical situation, the person who was "responsible" (which would be both parties, you should realize), would have to pay the other's medical treatments. But, that's a bad idea anyway, because then it costs everyone money. (Same situation as suing somebody).

It's a complicated, convoluted, but nice thought, situation. It's not something that you should really even waste your time thinking about.

A) I hope you never have to deal with anything like this in your life or your families.

B) Capital punishment of any kind will always cost everyone else money. Please, keep that in mind.

C) HOW YOU GONNA PROVE IT, SUCKA!?


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Andrei on Mon Mar 6th at 10:14am 2006


If a girl told me "sorry, did I mention I have AIDS?" right after a night of wild sex, i'd definitely hang her from the nearest tree.
It seems fitting.




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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Myrk- on Mon Mar 6th at 5:41pm 2006

? quoting Nickelplate
so why not flash a card before you get it on? that way if he or she sees that you have chlamydia, they don't have to risk getting it.

Not quite that simple... Most people are drunk or on drugs during these situations, and even then rape can occur (and I predict in that situation it would be high) and people won't flash a card revealing information about themselves. People are against identity cards, even though it does really have that much info on them- DON'T GO INTO POLITICS!




-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-



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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Mon Mar 6th at 5:43pm 2006

People often don't bother to fumble for a condom, let alone a card.




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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Mon Mar 6th at 5:46pm 2006

positive test = pubic tattoo.... problem solved.

It might also be a good idea to make testing mandatory, like renewing your drivers license or something.

Really though, this is just one more reason to hold yourself to loving long term relationships only. The whole idea of "casual sex" is hopelessly flawed.




Some people are like slinkys...

They aren?t really good for anything, but you can't help but laugh when one tumbles down the stairs.



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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by SpiKeRs on Mon Mar 6th at 6:13pm 2006

Knowingly passing on a disease that will eventually kill someone should involve life punishment imo (having said that I wouldnt wanna share a cell with that person, ahem... so maybe hanging them from a tree would be more suitable). I dont really see it as different to murdering them outright. In fact its probably worse.



Hello there.



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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Loco on Mon Mar 6th at 6:25pm 2006

? quote:
People are against identity cards, even though it does really have that much info on them- DON'T GO INTO POLITICS!

Biometrics encompasses a lot - DNA, retinal scan, fingerprints etc

But hey, that's politics, so forget it.

Interesting comparison with murder from Spikers. Murder often infers malice though, and a more direct action, whilst this is more of "murder via a disease" sort of thing. I wonder if you could argue that it is murder in court, assuming that the victim dies fairly quickly...


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