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Would you Punish, or Pray?
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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Mon Mar 6th at 6:33pm 2006

What about someone injecting someone with a needle hot with AIDS?

Would that be assault with a deadly weapon? Would that be murder if the person died?




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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Loco on Mon Mar 6th at 6:48pm 2006

Morph's example must be murder, right? Sadly, that's not unheard of, courtesy of some very sick and twisted individuals.

Interestingly, for the British version of assault (I'm not sure about America), it is divided into assault and battery. Assault is fear of being hit/attacked e.g. nearly punching someone or raising your fist at them, whilst battery is actually hitting them. Anyway, that was off-topic.


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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Gollum on Mon Mar 6th at 7:15pm 2006

? quoting Tracer Bullet
Really though, this is just one more reason to hold yourself to loving long term relationships only. The whole idea of "casual sex" is hopelessly flawed.

Easy now! Mixing morality with epedemiology is misguided. Viruses do not possess agency, so let's not invoke them to support monogamy.

The connection between casual sex and infections is not a moral one; it's an unfortunate causal connection. You're just one step away from saying, "God made Aids to punish sinners".

Of course, widespread casual sex has the deplorable consequence of greatly increasing the incidence of STIs. But that doesn't ipso facto make it morally repugnant. Widespread intercontinental travel, a modern development, has greatly enhanced the ability of new diseases to spread; but that doesn't make travel a bad thing in itself.

Clearly, however, it is irresponsible to have casual sex without due care for safeguarding each other's sexual health (i.e., wear a condom or get yourselves both checked first).





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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Tue Mar 7th at 12:53am 2006

Right you are, Gollum, but I'm not talking about morality here, and I think that makes a difference. Despite the fact that my opinion is one that is typically associated with traditional morality and religion, my statement is a logical conclusion based on experience and observation. It's far safer, both physically and emotionally to stick to a monogamous lifestyle. You're asking to get hurt in one way or another if you behave promiscuously, and I have little sympathy for those who do and then moan about it.



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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Mar 7th at 1:21am 2006

? quoting Tracer Bullet
Right you are, Gollum, but I'm not talking about morality here, and I think that makes a difference. Despite the fact that my opinion is one that is typically associated with traditional morality and religion, my statement is a logical conclusion based on experience and observation. It's far safer, both physically and emotionally to stick to a monogamous lifestyle. You're asking to get hurt in one way or another if you behave promiscuously, and I have little sympathy for those who do and then moan about it.

Well, that would definitely open another chapter in the moral debate. I find myself getting tireder and tireder of hearing all the woes people have that they have brought upon themselves. Me, being a self centered asshole quit smoking on 10/10/96. This year will mark my tenth anniversary. I have less will than your average Joe, and yet, I managed to quite after nearly 3 decades of puffing.

I get so tired of the crying people do about how cigarettes did this and that to them and how they would like to sue someone. Well guess what? It clearly states that you'll f**king die if you smoke them long enough. How freaking more clear does the warning need to be on the packages?

Same goes for all of life's choices. If you know before you get that ear ring in your nose that someone straight is going to be prejudiced and you do it anyway, don't cry about fair treatment. If you know that renting a hooker for the night is going to give you crabs (or worse) don't piss and whine.

I find myself wishing every single day that the rumors of cancer and constant cell phone use are link is true. I hope it starts soon so we can cut down on the over population. Natural selection and all that. It will weed out the truly stupid and leave us with normal stupid.

/rant





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Nickelplate on Tue Mar 7th at 2:45am 2006

On the topic of morality v. safe/sensible living

As a Christian, my morality talls me to follow the laws of the bible that God gave us. Most of the moral choices I make in the name of my religion are made by atheists who are good people. The just don't do it because God told them to, they do it because it's safe and sensible. Like not sleeping with 5 different women in Uganda. I don't do it because I don't fornicate. and Mr. Atheist doesn't do it because he knows there is a REALLY good chance that they will have AIDS.

This is where you have to think: "Why did God GIVE us these moral guidelines in the first place." In the bible, God warns us against fornication, Gay sex parties, beastiality, and incest. For thousands of years I bet people thought. "Why would he just give us rules that take away our right to have a Beastiality party?" Because they didn't know about GERMS back then. They didn't know about Viruses and STD's and all that crap. So they followed thier guidelines. God put those things in the law to protect the people, becase they were not advanced enough at the time to even KNOW about germs.

Now, we know about germs and we see that the biblical laws are correct in telling us not to engage in these high-risk behaviors. We know because we can see with our technology that Sex with animals makes you sick, we see that there is a HUGE amount of AIDS infections in the Gay communities, and we see that Incest can cause the expression of regressive genes like Down's Syndrome, and Sickle-cell Anaemia.

It doesn't matter WHAT source you base your decisions from, Tracer Bullet is right: The idea of "Casual Sex" is hopelessly flawed. And, i might add that it is warned against by both the religious community ANd the medical community.




I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Loco on Tue Mar 7th at 9:24am 2006

I think I agree mostly with what's being said here, although perhaps for a slightly different reason - namely moral and ethical reasons. Orph points to the "woes people have that they have brought upon themselves", and in a very basic and simplistic sense, woes should be avoided. Thus it is a bad thing. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

Told you it was simplistic.


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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Madedog on Wed Mar 8th at 7:30am 2006

Hang'em :P

No, really, people with such diseases should not run rampant and have sex with anyone they see! (a bit overreacted but still...)


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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by 7dk2h4md720ih on Wed Mar 8th at 5:59pm 2006

? quoting Orpheus


Dave, you know me. I only added it out of respect to my friends who believe that might be an option. I couldn't very well have 6 options of castration after all.
I may not believe in God, but I have many friends who do so I added it for them.


I respect peoples religion and beliefs too, wether they contradict mine or not. I was only asking because I've never heard of any religious folk completely substituting punishment for prayer.



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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Nickelplate on Wed Mar 8th at 6:57pm 2006

My first impulse was to say "If they're engaging in high-risk activities, why are they whining when the risk turns against them?" and really, if you're gonna sleep around or whatever, you need to be prepared for more consequences than just adding another girl/guy on your list. Lots of people have these diseases, so you need to be careful. and get tested even if you dont think you have anything.


I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by 7dk2h4md720ih on Wed Mar 8th at 7:20pm 2006

? quote:
My first impulse was to say "If they're engaging in high-risk activities, why are they whining when the risk turns against them?" and really, if you're gonna sleep around or whatever, you need to be prepared for more consequences than just adding another girl/guy on your list. Lots of people have these diseases, so you need to be careful. and get tested even if you dont think you have anything.


I don't know if you missed it but this topic is about people knowingly passing on diseases, not people being sexully irresponsible in other ways. Having casual sex does not invalidate your right to "whine" when someone knowingly gives you AIDS.

Engaging in high-risk activities? That's not very sexy, I think your title may not be true.



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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Wed Mar 8th at 7:25pm 2006

As a college student I'm pretty sure I've heard that the United States national average is 1 in 10 college students has a sexually transmittable infection.

Pretty messed up.




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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Nickelplate on Thu Mar 9th at 6:15am 2006

TwoKnives: the only way someone can knowingly give you an STD is to knowingly have sex with you... that is what I'm saying. It might not matter if they knew. Lets just say that the STD is AIDS: a death sentence.

Having multiple partners is like playing russian roulette only the other player pulls the trigger. If when one time they pull the trigger, there happens to be a bullet in the chamber, it's still YOUR fault that you got shot because YOU chose to play russian roulette. but YEAH the other person should get in trouble too.




I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Gollum on Thu Mar 9th at 10:28am 2006

Many people here have made the point that having sex with lots of people is more risky than having sex with only a few. Obviously this is true.

Some, however, seem over-enthusiastic in their expression of this truth, viz: "People who have lots of casual sex deserve to get STIs".

Could this, perhaps, indicate envy? "Serve them right for having a more exciting sex life than I do! I'm so glad I've only slept with a couple of partners, in long-term relationships, because it kept me safe."



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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by BlisTer on Thu Mar 9th at 11:53am 2006

? quote:
It's far safer, both physically and emotionally to stick to a monogamous lifestyle. You're asking to get hurt in one way or another if you behave promiscuously

i have a great & steady relationship now, and i had one 4 years ago, but in between, i had one-night stands and i'm not sorry i had them. the girls were girls i trusted and no-one was hurt emotionally. we mostly used condoms, with a few exceptions where i trusted the girls - they didnt have one-night stands before, or very few. Ofcourse there's always a risk, but think of this: when you first go to bed with your girlfriend, did you both have a hiv-test before ? it's in both cases, a matter of trust. Well i did a hiv test after and during the one-night stands to be absolutely sure ofcourse.

i'm glad i had those "wild" years now, so it won't be something i will be curious about later (when married with kids etc). That's a complementary cause of many divorces.




These words are my diaries screaming out loud



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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Dr Brasso on Thu Mar 9th at 1:36pm 2006

what really chaps my ass about this topic, is that casual overall attitude im seeing....they have s**t out there that eats penicillin for breakfast, so why would you even consider a "heated rendezvous" with a stranger....there is no way in hell that you could convince me that this would be wise behavior.......especially since most of you gents strike me as quite intelligent....whats the old saying?...."a stiff pud has no concience"...should be..."stiff pud makes ya lose yer f**kin mind, and possibly yer life....."

....although my brother tells me that "you can get used to taking a 20 pill coctail 3 times a day for the rest of your life, whatever that is left of it...."

Doc....





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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Loco on Thu Mar 9th at 3:16pm 2006

Vaguely associated with this topic, there's a good podcast on "File on 4" about consent.

But that's fairly irrelevant. Carry on... <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

Blister's point about divorce is an interesting one. I wonder what the statistics are. I would have thought that it removes certain "special" elements (probably bad phrasing there, but you know what I mean) from a marriage, possibly weakening it, so I suppose it can be seen from both sides.


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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Nickelplate on Thu Mar 9th at 4:09pm 2006

? quoting Gollum
Many people here have made the point that having sex with lots of people is more risky than having sex with only a few. Obviously this is true.

Some, however, seem over-enthusiastic in their expression of this truth, viz: "People who have lots of casual sex deserve to get STIs".

Could this, perhaps, indicate envy? "Serve them right for having a more exciting sex life than I do! I'm so glad I've only slept with a couple of partners, in long-term relationships, because it kept me safe."

Some people think so, Gollum. It may be hard for many people in today's world to beleive, but sex just is not important to some people. It is a HUGE part of our society today, so it's hard for some people to comprehend that. I've been dissed and made fun of plenty of times because I am religiously opposed to fornication. To me it's just like any other thing that people do that is risky. Any time you do something illegal, you run the risk of getting caught. Any time you have sex with a stranger or some slutty cheerleader who's slept with all the seniors, (or whoever) you run the risk of your actions catching up to you, id est, STDs. So, yes, it IS your fault, and you DO deserve it if you get it because you made a conscious choice to engage in the behavior of which contracting and STD is a risk.




I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Thu Mar 9th at 5:35pm 2006

What about situations where you trust a girl (and have known her for a long time) and she says she's clean, but she gives you HIV because she's psychotic/too embarrassed to mention she's got HIV?

I personally wouldn't put the blame on the guy in that situation. I don't think you can say that anyone has sex deserves to get HIV.

I understand where you're coming from with your point that anyone who is promiscuous deserves it (since they should count infection as a real risk), but where can we draw the line between promiscuity and acceptable behavior? Do we draw the line at marriage? When should we have sympathy for the one getting infected?




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 Re: Would you Punish, or Pray?
Posted by ReNo on Thu Mar 9th at 5:58pm 2006

So, by carrying out an activity in which you know there are risks, you deserve to have those risks occur? By bungee jumping, do you deserve to have the cord snap and fall to your doom? By crossing the road, do you deserve to be hit by a truck? By walking home from school on your own do you deserve to be kidnapped, raped, murdered? Everything has risks associated with it Nickel - I think it is ridiculous to suggest that people deserve those risks to befall them just because they did the activity anyway. Unless we are talking about absolutely ridiculous scenarions of course; like jumping out of a plane without a parachute sort of thing <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">



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