What Every Parent Should Know; Dispelling the Myths of Common Childhood Illnesses
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Re: What Every Parent Should Know; Dispelling the Myths of Common Childhood Illnesses
Posted by Orpheus on Mon Mar 20th at 12:10am 2006


Again, we are back to wordplay. The myth is, all children need drugs.

Children are misdiagnosed all to frequently. Todays society allows people, not educated Doctors to talk parents into "Chemical baby sitting"

I have two nephews on drugs. Both were encouraged to be so by their teachers. My stupid brother and sister allowed their children to become life time drug addicts.

Hyperactivity, is not easy to deal with, but drug induced semi-comas should never be the option.

On another note, I do not trust most doctors to diagnose ADHD properly. Most are general practitioners and their ability to do so is hampered by their lack of education. If thats offensive to a pediatrician, get over it because its a condition thats getting increasingly more common.

ADHD is bad, misdiagnosing it.. Worse by many leagues.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: What Every Parent Should Know; Dispelling the Myths of Common Childhood Illnesses
Posted by Nickelplate on Mon Mar 20th at 12:17am 2006


Satchmo: what about "back in the day" when nobody had heard of hyperactivity, when a kid just got discipline for his misbehavior? Why is medicine better than a good old fashioned swat on the bum?


I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



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Re: What Every Parent Should Know; Dispelling the Myths of Common Childhood Illnesses
Posted by Orpheus on Mon Mar 20th at 12:24am 2006


Allow me to be very clear. I am sure that ADHD exists. I am not sure that every child on drugs who was diagnosed with ADHD is a true patient of the condition.

The children I have seen on these drugs, are just little more than slobbering idiots while on them. Sure thing, now you HAVE to have the drugs because they are very violent now whenever they come down, but they didn't used to be so. They were happy, but energetic children.

If ADHD is the real issue, I have no problems. Its the increasingly desire to have chemical baby sitters that bothers me.

The current generation of addicts is NOW reaching adulthood. These children will be on their own soon. What will we do with them then?

Again, the myth I mention is "All children need drugs to learn if they are unmanageably hyper"





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: What Every Parent Should Know; Dispelling the Myths of Common Childhood Illnesses
Posted by ReNo on Mon Mar 20th at 12:25am 2006


Maybe the ones of those who truly did have ADHD, never had those "good old fashioned" techniques work for them.





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Re: What Every Parent Should Know; Dispelling the Myths of Common Childhood Illnesses
Posted by Orpheus on Mon Mar 20th at 12:30am 2006


? quoting ReNo
Maybe the ones of those who truly did have ADHD, never had those "good old fashioned" techniques work for them.

Duncan, I don't want this to degrade into a "Spare the rod spoil the child" threads.

I do feel that some need a whippin. I more feel that they need dedicated parenting. A parent willing to invest the time it takes to teach a hyper active child will succeed. I am a living example of such.

Course, my education is far and away beneath most here, but I didn't require drugs to achieve it.

I am not sure how Scotland approves of drugs on children, but in the States its all to easy to get a doctor to issue them to children.

Neither of my nephews required them, and yet they have them. Easy as pie it was.... The teachers were "under staffed" and didn't have the time to invest in hyper children. They talked to the parents, the parents in turn told the doctor the situation as the TEACHER saw it and guess what???

Anyway, its becoming all to frequent. Much so.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: What Every Parent Should Know; Dispelling the Myths of Common Childhood Illnesses
Posted by ReNo on Mon Mar 20th at 1:00am 2006


Oh I agree mate, I think its shocking how frequently parents seem to jump on the "ADHD" bandwagon, and I also think it probably is fairly simple to get the drugs if you try hard enough to do so. However, my point was simply a reply to Nickel's comment that when drugs weren't available, good old fashioned disciplining worked in their place. In most cases, I believe that is probably true and also believe that it still works today. On the other hand, I don't think it would work if the problem actually is ADHD - maybe back in those days, the people who had ADHD never did "succeed" in getting over their hyperactivity, even with the best disciplining efforts of their parents.





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Re: What Every Parent Should Know; Dispelling the Myths of Common Childhood Illnesses
Posted by mazemaster on Mon Mar 20th at 1:20am 2006


Problem: Boys are not designed to sit still in a classroom for hours a time.

Solution: Pump them full of drugs.

Anyone else see a problem here?






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Re: What Every Parent Should Know; Dispelling the Myths of Common Childhood Illnesses
Posted by Gwil on Mon Mar 20th at 1:23am 2006


There's a lot to debate here regarding child discipline and behaviour patterns, and I too lean toward the thinking that all too often, hyperactivity or ADHDesque problems are used as an excuse for failed parenting.

I just wanted to voice my vocal support for this, mainly:

? quote:
1) The myth that a baby has to have something in its mouth to suck on at all times. The myth that a pacifier is a good thing is horrible. It causes physical and psychological damage that extends far into adulthood in some rare cases. At the very least it can cause damage that extends into school age children.


Amen. Pacifiers should be outlawed.




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Re: What Every Parent Should Know; Dispelling the Myths of Common Childhood Illnesses
Posted by Orpheus on Mon Mar 20th at 1:26am 2006


I would also like to point out, this is not an attack on Satchmo. I think his book is a wonderful idea and I would support any book of the type.

My replies seem argumentative but in reality I am angry at the system, NOT Satchmo.

I do feel however that on some level, or correspondence is getting skewed and we seem to be arguing.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: What Every Parent Should Know; Dispelling the Myths of Common Childhood Illnesses
Posted by Nickelplate on Mon Mar 20th at 3:22am 2006


? quoting mazemaster
Problem: Boys are not designed to sit still in a classroom for hours a time.

Solution: Pump them full of drugs.

Anyone else see a problem here?

Boys are meant to think about sex all the time. Just have the classes be about sex.

and seriously... anything named "Pacifier" could probably be substituted with something named "A whuppin'"




I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



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Re: What Every Parent Should Know; Dispelling the Myths of Common Childhood Illnesses
Posted by wil5on on Mon Mar 20th at 7:10am 2006


About the ADHD drugs, I hear you cant join the armed forces if youve taken them. It doesnt sound too important until you consider that this is probably the best place for hyper kids, a structured environment that (I'm sure Orph will agree) whips you into shape. Of course, if they actually have the disorder, then they should be on the proper meds, but if they are misdiagnosed they could lose the opportunity.


"If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?"
- My yr11 Economics teacher



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Re: What Every Parent Should Know; Dispelling the Myths of Common Childhood Illnesses
Posted by Orpheus on Mon Mar 20th at 10:39am 2006


If the person in question really does have ADHD then I imagine the military would be the worse place to be. I imagine them either withdrawing into themselves, killing themselves or worse, becoming extremely violent.

I am not exactly sure what mindset an ADHD person takes in life.

As for purely hyperactivity, I'd say it would be near perfect.

It is my understanding that hyperactivity is in the body, and ADHD is in the brain. Both look similar because of the activities the child displays but both are as dissimilar as they can possibly get.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: What Every Parent Should Know; Dispelling the Myths of Common Childhood Illnesses
Posted by satchmo on Mon Mar 20th at 8:29pm 2006


Before we had these medications, the ones with ADHD either ended up in jail or addicted to illegal drugs. They usually fail in school and end up as criminals.

The kids who just need some discipline? The medications will make their behavior worse, and their behavior will not improve one bit.

That's how you know you've got the wrong diagnosis.



"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge



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Re: What Every Parent Should Know; Dispelling the Myths of Common Childhood Illnesses
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Mar 25th at 1:20pm 2006


Doc, you had several occasions within this thread to either show your concern over these kids misdiagnosis, or your grief that many Doctors are doing it and yet... In each instance you only made excuses to cover up for them. I am left with only one conclusion. You must be one of these Doctors too.

No one can deny that the misdiagnosis of ADHD is a problem that needs a solution and yet, either through self absorption or professional courtesy for your peers you have avoided commenting at all on the ever growing problem. In fact, I am still confused as to why and quite frankly am left with the question "Are the Doctors the cause of this, or merely a symptom of a bigger issue???"

? quote:
But as parents, they have two options. They can either believe the myth and refuse to do anything about their kids' condition, and just have them failing through life and have low self-esteem, or they can allow their kids to reach their true potential by helping them to focus better with these medications.

Wrong, there is a third option. They can seek out another opinion, then afterward shell out the necessary dollars to find a qualified professional who specializes in this condition. Putting the child on the wrong medication through trial and error is never the ideal course of action. Taking the word of only one Doctor and/or an unqualified non-specialist is NEVER the only option.

? quote:
Before we had these medications, the ones with ADHD either ended up in jail or addicted to illegal drugs. They usually fail in school and end up as criminals.

So, since we now have proper techniques the prison population has diminished or been restructured to only have "real" criminals now? Personally, in the last decade or so, I have noticed no decline in the prisons populations at all. In fact, these children who used to be happy and energetic are now violent because they are permanently addicted to very expensive drugs. It seems to me that this would be a driving force to become a criminal. How else will the support the habit?

? quote:
That's how you know you've got the wrong diagnosis.

Yup, sure thing. All the children I have ever seen are nearly catatonic from the drugs. Sure they do better in school. They have no choice since sitting and drooling is more favorable to learning than bouncing around like they are on speed.
There has simply got to be some middle ground. Children do not need chemical lobotomies to be taught in school. NO MATTER what the teachers may intimate otherwise!!!

In the end, I am simply a concerned parent who has noted a problem that seems to be growing by leaps and bounds. If you cannot motivate yourself to address this serious issue within your book, I see no reason for you to write about anything else either as it would show an excessive unconcerned attitude to "real" myths.

Misdiagnosis of ADHD is real. Do your part in preventing it. Avoiding the problem within this thread... Frankly its losing you points not gaining them.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: What Every Parent Should Know; Dispelling the Myths of Common Childhood Illnesses
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Sat Mar 25th at 4:43pm 2006


Orpheus, you know satchmo is an MD. You know he's gone to school for years and worked for many more. He's exposed to children daily. I think its a little much for you to take the position of an expert and tell Satchmo what's so wrong about everything he's said, since in reality he is the biggest medical expert on this site.

Ritalin and other ADHD drugs don't give kids chemical lobotomies. I don't know how many kids you know who are on these drugs, but I have many friends who are and with them they can finally function on a high level academically. These kids are some of the brightest people I know, and if anything negative is to be said about them, it would have to be that perhaps Ritalin gives them an unfair advantage over me and others who don't have a drug to help them study. But I say that only to come up with a negative side to the drug so it wont seem like I'm a paid employee of the drug industry <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

In other words, I only see the positive effect it has had on their lives, and they are far from drooling catatonics now. Quite the opposite.

You seem to think that the kids who had ADD before drugs came along were just happy and energetic, and now with drugs they are violent. I think you're wrong about that. I think the ones that needed the drug were hyperactive and unfocused before, and now they're able to function normally. I've gone through public high school, a private new england boarding school, and I'm at a small new england college now. I've been around lots of kids who come from families wealthy enough to get their kids the help they need. I would agree that it's overdiagnosed, and I see Ritalin getting bought and abused by kids who don't have a perscription, but you can't use its abuses as a way to ignore its benefits. In the end, I think more people are helped than harmed by Ritalin and ADHD drugs.




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Re: What Every Parent Should Know; Dispelling the Myths of Common Childhood Illnesses
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Mar 25th at 5:17pm 2006


Morph.. Don't oppose me on this. MD's make mistakes, just like anyone else does.

I drive for a living. I could teach every single one of you things about driving but you know what? Each and every one of you would think "Stuff this s**t"

If I have to be a Doctor to be a part of a conversation, then you have to be an adult with children to be part of mine.

Now, that may seem out of line, but in essence, its exactly what you just told me.

If I were you, I would study the situation and find out just how many people/children are misdiagnosed and then get back to me.

AGAIN LET ME REITERATE.. I believe in ADHD. I do NOT believe that all the children diagnosed with it, HAVE IT!

My main issue at this point is, Satch never once said "Yeah, its sad that ADHD is blamed for everything"

At least give some sign that he has a clue.

[edit] Besides, it is a parents DUTY to question everything that deals with their children. I believe that no stone need be left unturned in a situation that will IMPACT A CHILD FOR LIFE!

In every case, where a child has been successfully diagnosed, if one child has been misdiagnosed, it has to live with that.. FOREVER. I think that any decent parent should make certain.

anyway, do not assume me merely argumentative just because I seem to be only arguing. I KNOW what I am talking about with regards to hyperactivity and its daily woes it creates.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: What Every Parent Should Know; Dispelling the Myths of Common Childhood Illnesses
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Sat Mar 25th at 5:21pm 2006


? quoting Orpheus
If I were you, I would study the situation and find out just how many people/children are misdiagnosed and then get back to me.


I will if you do too <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">




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Re: What Every Parent Should Know; Dispelling the Myths of Common Childhood Illnesses
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Mar 25th at 5:29pm 2006


*growls*

You are either deliberately ignoring my comments, or tempting fate. I am not sure which but...

Do not assume that Satch knows about this just because he is a Doctor. For one reason, You do not know for a certainty that I am 43. You only have my word for it.

I do not doubt for a second that Satch is faking, but you cannot side with anyone just because they say "I am a Doctor and I build maps for Half Life" I believe he is a Doctor, but Peds are not Specialists in the field of the mind. I would never assume that a childrens Doctor knew the signs a cures for ADHD.

Seriously, wait till someday you have a child and someone, maybe a Doctor, maybe not tells you your child is broken. You'll see things differently if you are any parent of note.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: What Every Parent Should Know; Dispelling the Myths of Common Childhood Illnesses
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Sat Mar 25th at 6:04pm 2006


I definitely agree that misdiagnosis is bad, I was just under the impression earlier that you were completely anti-ADHD drugs. I see now that's not what you were saying.



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Re: What Every Parent Should Know; Dispelling the Myths of Common Childhood Illnesses
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Mar 25th at 6:16pm 2006


? quoting Addicted to Morphine
. I see now that's not what you were saying.

You were fully within your purview to call me on this. But, I had assumed you understood where I was coming from.

Sad, you assumed me erroneous on the basis of you not reading the thread through.

Also, I have talked with Satch on a limited basis via PM's. I believe 100% that he is a Doctor. That was never in question. However, my belief that he didn't show the proper attitude where these children and their misdiagnosis stands. I fear that he didn't display a proper Doctors attitude. I fear, he displayed,.... "I went to school for this, who the f**k are you to question me?" attitude instead.





The best things in life, aren't things.




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