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V for vendetta
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 Re: V for vendetta
Posted by Cassius on Mon Mar 20th at 6:51pm 2006

Funny that you should mention Alan Moore, who was apparently so dissatisfied with the film's representation of his work that he had his name removed from the credits. Perhaps I was unable to grasp the moral complexities Moore suggested in the graphic novel because I watched the movie - which, as I suppose Moore's decision would imply, is an entirely different work, and which, I would say, did not pose any of the questions I mentioned. Rather, it simply glorifies V's violent romanticism as just without considering its repercussions.

I have read The Watchmen, by the way. I apologize if my post that made no mention of it suggested that I hadn't.





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 Re: V for vendetta
Posted by Crono on Mon Mar 20th at 9:04pm 2006

Alan Moore doesn't see any adaptations of his books, period. So, it has nothing to do with dissatisfaction, although, this is the first movie adapted from one of his works that was actually ... faithful. On the other hand David Lloyd apparently loved it and thought it captured the characters well. (google for interviews)

[SPOILER GALORE (Movie and Graphic Novel)]
I think that, generally, the film was toned down. Not in violent content (it's technically more violent than the book), but they toned V down. In the book he kills EVERYONE he comes in contact with except Evey and the Inspector. This, coupled with the order things are revealed in the book make V a very menacing character. You pretty much identify with him very little (which is why Evey is present throughout the book).

Something else they changed that really drastically changes the interpretation upon viewing is the circumstances of what and when things happen. The reason imprisons Evey and "set's her free" is far different in both versions: Movie, because ... he has no one else to do it to? I'm not really sure since it's not particularly apparent, probably along the lines of "there are no coincidences". Book: she shows compassion for V, by attempting to Murder someone (Creedy, if you're wondering) after she explained (loudly) to V she wasn't going to be involved in any killing. It kind of changes the reasoning based on situation.
[/SPOILERS]

As for some of your "complaints" Cass, the book really defines all the characters, and they're transfered well onto the screen. However, I really think people who've already read the book will have some advantage in enjoying the movie over people who haven't, since the characters are already familiar and the worst thing you think is: "It's a shame they didn't flesh out that character more, because I really liked them in the book", it doesn't make the movie confusing (in any aspect) and overall you realize they both have the same message.

On a side note: I love Watchmen, far more than V.


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: V for vendetta
Posted by Myrk- on Mon Mar 20th at 9:56pm 2006

So your allowed glorified American war films killing "terrorists", but when it comes to the other side its evil? Please... The yanks deserve a lot of what they get- they've been bombing people in Iraq since the first war there, and thier only desire is all the money in the world.

Hardly suprising that the corporate country that is America would disagree strongly with anything that attacks its ideas- just like adverts.




-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-



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 Re: V for vendetta
Posted by Bewbies on Mon Mar 20th at 11:12pm 2006

wtf myrk? where'd that come from?

hijacking a few passenger airplanes and smashing them into various populated buildings is only a terrorist act in america's eyes? it's one thing for someone to commit terrorism when it comes to political/government views, and quite another when it comes to commiting terrorism because your god said to. (god forbid american women waltz around scantily-clad.) radical islam is terrorism by anyone's standards but radical islam's.

if the USA marched into afganistan and iraq to take control of their government without the pretense of halting terrorist and/or dangerous activity, then maybe one could justify attacks on the USA. however, that's not the case. we responded to an immediate threat in afghanistan, and nipped hussein's murderous government in the bud before he had the capabilities to continue his genocide with WsMD. (one reason. one of many for entering iraq.)

...if we're looking for all the money in the world, why is it we're plunking billions of our own dollars down the hole for this war? many would think we're gonna procure some of the richest oil fields in the mideast as our spoils, but you know who's going to keep and make profit of those fields in actuality? the iraqis. and as far as rebuilding contracts go, it wasn't just american companies in line.. but hey, "desiring all the money in the world" is easily confused with "desiring peace and security from the middle-east even at the immense currency and mortality cost."

..i can just hope you meant to add sarcasm formatting with that post and simply forgot, myrk. because then maybe it'd make a lick of sense.





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 Re: V for vendetta
Posted by Gwil on Mon Mar 20th at 11:19pm 2006

Don't worry, he's reactionary for the sake of being reactionary :P

Although -

? quote:
and nipped hussein's murderous government in the bud before he had the capabilities to continue his genocide with WsMD. (one reason. one of many for entering iraq.)


Rubbish :P the United States and the coalition forces went to war with Iraq on the basis of bad intelligence, lies and speculation. None of the reasons they tout now ("we got rid of a tyrant!") were in their causes when the war started.

Whatever you think of being in Iraq, the current situation in Iraq and the ethics of war, there is no denying the face the US/UK/etc governments went to war on a pack of fabricated rubbish and changed the reasons after.







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 Re: V for vendetta
Posted by Bewbies on Mon Mar 20th at 11:37pm 2006

fabricated reasoning and reasoning based on misinformation are very different things.. hussein's own generals believed there were WsMD when they had already actually been destroyed. if the country shows every sign of having WsMD up until you threaten to invade, when they suddenly denying it, something naughty is probably afoot. especially when they deny inspectors to properly search all facilities.

even if there are zero WsMD, there was more than enough reason to believe there were. gotta wonder what would have happened if he actually did have the capabilities to launch attacks on neighboring countries.. $10 says the USA would have been found guilty in the court of public opinion for not acting on the intelligence.

"Tonight on CNN: Special Report: USA had intelligence outlining Iraq's capabilities prior to attacks. ..In other news, Bush is a poopyhead."





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 Re: V for vendetta
Posted by Gwil on Mon Mar 20th at 11:40pm 2006

That's just it though, large portions of the UN presentation and in Britain, "the dodgy dossier" were outright lies - and they knew it too!

As for it being a reaction the attacks of 2001... hello! Iraq has no links to al Qaeda and actively disagrees with the group...

Anyway, this ground has been covered too many times before, so I won't get into a discussion on it.




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 Re: V for vendetta
Posted by Bewbies on Mon Mar 20th at 11:43pm 2006

also, i concede that the pretense of WsMD was emphasized when entering iraq.. who is going to join the US in a war to protect primarily itself? WsMD showed that he was a danger to everyone.. kinda backfired, seeing as how that huge figurehead kinda fell apart. bleh.

Message submitted 1 minutes after original post:

? quoting Gwil
That's just it though, large portions of the UN presentation and in Britain, "the dodgy dossier" were outright lies - and they knew it too!

As for it being a reaction the attacks of 2001... hello! Iraq has no links to al Qaeda and actively disagrees with the group...

Anyway, this ground has been covered too many times before, so I won't get into a discussion on it.

agreed.

*climbs back into hole*




the players tried to take the field
the marching band refused to yield



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 Re: V for vendetta
Posted by FatStrings on Tue Mar 21st at 1:44am 2006

yet who knows if the US gov't knew the plane crashes where going to happen beforehand?

hm...let's see

about 911:
  • Norad standing down on 911, fake terror drills- documented.
  • Executive Order 199i where bush called the FBI off of binladen months before 911
  • The fbi and cia training at least 9 of the hijackers, documented pensacola airforce base
  • Bush inaction after the first crash
  • bush's continued inaction after the second
  • I could go on and on their are so many red flags

heres some other reasons our gov't is s**t:
  • "We can't be so fixated our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans." -Bill Clinton


In 1917 it was brought before the House of represenitives that at that time the top twenty five media outlets were all being bought up and conglomerated into larger and larger groups, but keeping the old names as if thier opinions would still differ as they did before. what you then have is a group of media that are all owned and operated by a select group. This group is of course closely tied with the politicians at capital hill. The news we hear about are only the stories that they could not keep quit. The real stories the main stream doesn't cover because they are told not to. Today our media empire are all interconnected, check it out its easy to see. So when all the media is controlled by a select and small group only the news they want to get out will get out, and the stuff that is coming out on bush is mearly the stories that they could not hold back.
  • here are two quotes
Richard Cohen senior producer CBS "We are going to impose our agenda on the coverage by dealing with issues and subjects we choose to deal with."
Richard Salant former Pres CBS "Our job is to give people not what they want but what we decide they ought to have."
(that means that our gov't decides what we deserve to hear on the news, which is why the only part i believe is the weather)





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 Re: V for vendetta
Posted by Agent Smith on Tue Mar 21st at 2:09am 2006

Believe it or not but Joe Public is as stupid everywhere else as it is in America.



Ham and Jam Contributor
http://www.hamandjam.org

'Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!'



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 Re: V for vendetta
Posted by Jinx on Tue Mar 21st at 2:32am 2006

Saw the movie.... the first 15 minutes sucked, but it was quite good when it got going. I'm not crazy about the ending, though, as compared to the graphic novel. Although they did an amazing job on some parts, such as when Evey is in 'prison' and receiving notes. That was just an amazing sequence.

Anyway, if you liked the movie, go read the graphic novel, too. As good as the movie was, the novel is better and fills in a lot that had to be cut in a two-hour movie.

-------------------

EDIT - just plain sick of bitching about the Bush administration. if someone is too stupid at this point to see how corrupt and incompetant they are, they aren't worth talking to.



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 Re: V for vendetta
Posted by Cassius on Tue Mar 21st at 3:29am 2006

For me, V prompted this question: to Fatstrings and all those who think along similar lines, what are you doing? If you honestly believe that the American government allowed or encourage terrorists to attack Americans, what are you doing writing about it on the internet? Shouldn't such extreme action invite outrage or protest beyond the formulation of conspiracy theories?





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 Re: V for vendetta
Posted by FatStrings on Tue Mar 21st at 3:40am 2006

i'm not trying to show you a conspiracy "theory" the fact remains that it is quite possible our government could have stopped these attacks

another such incident is the Oklahoma City bombing where the government just happened to give the bomb squad the day off and for some reason gave the public innacurate information about the bombing, such as how it was bombed and where the bombs were placed/detonated

i am not just making this up it is all documented fact
you must remember that our president is a member of the skull and bones (yes the organization that the movie The Skulls is about) yes it exists though the movies got alot wrong
the skull and bones are an occultic fraternal order at yale were they have to take an everlasting oath to each other that would suppersede anyoath of office they may take in the future, just like freemasonry. i might add that bush and kerry are both members and happen to be of the same level as they are of the same year, in fact kerry was nominated into the order by bush senior, hm the plot thickens

i remind you these are all facts




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 Re: V for vendetta
Posted by G4MER on Tue Mar 21st at 4:01am 2006

? quote:
So your allowed glorified American war films killing "terrorists", but when it comes to the other side its evil? Please... The yanks deserve a lot of what they get- they've been bombing people in Iraq since the first war there, and thier only desire is all the money in the world.
Hardly suprising that the corporate country that is America would disagree strongly with anything that attacks its ideas- just like adverts.


WOA there, your way outta line. Lets not confuse this movie with your Anti-America agenda Myrk.

I love how people can say we yanks deserve to have our innocents killed because we are consumer based society. Lets face it is America was to just go poof tomorrow, your country and the rest of them would just die off slow painful deaths. America supports the world. We are the Super Power. And you can just be mad as hell that we are all you want.

We have been bombing people in Iraq, no we have been bombing terrorist and attacking militia in Iraq, not only to protect American lives but lives of everyone in the world. We are also dumping billions of dollars into iraq rebuilding schools, and hospitals. I love how a closed minded fool like yourself can watch the news and assume that what he sees is the only truth. We do a lot of good over there. So I take great offence to you saying we deserve it.

As for all the money in the world.. We already have it. We could buy your country, and iff not we could nuke it off the face of the earth and wait tll it was ready to be re populated, so just stop acting like America has some hidden agenda and we are the bad guys of the world.



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 Re: V for vendetta
Posted by FatStrings on Tue Mar 21st at 4:07am 2006

wow



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 Re: V for vendetta
Posted by Agent Smith on Tue Mar 21st at 4:08am 2006

Funny enough Money I think your last comments may just prove Myrk's point.



Ham and Jam Contributor
http://www.hamandjam.org

'Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!'



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 Re: V for vendetta
Posted by G4MER on Tue Mar 21st at 4:10am 2006

Naw.. where one could, and one does are two different things.

but I see your point of view.



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 Re: V for vendetta
Posted by FatStrings on Tue Mar 21st at 4:13am 2006

man you sound like a stuck up asshole america

i can certainly understand why people from other countries would feel the way Myrk does MS
it doesn't surprise me at all
i mean look at Bush who is pushing so hard for us to ruin natural habitats and drill oil in Alaska
don't get me wrong i'm not a true greeny but hey it's their world too
be reminded that Bush is an oil tycoon, hmm...where do his motives lie?




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 Re: V for vendetta
Posted by G4MER on Tue Mar 21st at 4:24am 2006

fats, your starting to sound more and more like a conspiracy theoriest. More and more like a nut job too me.. there are hidden agendas in the shadows look out.. oh my god.. Next thing you'll be saying im a Goverment plant here to suck out your brain.

I will admit Bush has not been the best President in american history, but he has not been the worst either. Dont judge the American people buy one mans actions. Look at the polls, the majority of America doesn't agree with Bush..

And I understand it as well.. But for him to say innocent people deserve to die is a load of crap and wrong no matter what he believes.. if he is gonna take that stance then he would also have to believe that the Iraq people had it coming to them as well, hell after attacking their neibors, flying planes into our twin towers etc etc..

And I am sure there is some evil his country has pulled off that would also make it deserved to get something nasty to happen to it.. do you see where I am going..

One more thing, the Attacks on the twin Towers was an attack on the world. every country had people in there.. so this was not just an attack on America.. lets not forget that.

EDIT: yeah I am a stuck up American Asshole, so what?



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 Re: V for vendetta
Posted by FatStrings on Tue Mar 21st at 4:31am 2006

not anymore they don't agree with bush
and sorry if i lay this stuff on a bit heavy
but i live in an area of the united states where half of the populations is illiterate
i am actually persecuted by some for being catholic (i live in the buckle of the bible belt)
and our average citizen votes straight ticket for republicans no matter what
i know a family whos 6 year old granddaughter tore down a kerry sign because it was in her grandparent's front yard with now prompting from her family
that is sad
if i sound like a conspiracy theorist to you that's your problem these are the facts and i feel that a true american citizen would take the time to look into this kindof thing
if you understand what i have to live with every day you might understand why i get pissed about this kind of thing





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