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Is Sterilization the answer?
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 Re: Is Sterilization the answer?
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Apr 1st at 8:22pm 2006

I am not 100% sure, but I am sure enough to post a thread on this.

Arkansas has a mandatory sterilization process that is used on all mentally handicapped people. Although I understand the reasons, I am iffy on its ramifications. What I am unsure of is how many States/countries follow this guideline.

The problem is, if its morally right, why stop at the mentally handicapped? (downs syndrome)

There are conditions that totally incapacitate people. Many Phobias leave people incapable of functioning in society. Why pass on those genes to another person?

Another thing to consider. How "Mental" does mental need to be to qualify? I mean, there are some psychopaths who harm others chronically. If they are in prison for it, why not sterilize them as "PART" of their penance to society?

What about homosexuals? There are those that believe that its a born trait. Why burden another generation with a passed on gene. (assuming its a genetic trait.) Consider, it is a choice after all. If they cannot make that simple choice, what other choices are they liable to make poorly?

So, the question is: "Is it morally proper to prevent another generation (progeny) from being inflicted with a mentally incapacitating condition?"

This is a topic about Sterilization, NOT a thread about life's choices. Try not to degrade it any more than is usual for a Snarkpit thread.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Is Sterilization the answer?
Posted by Andrei on Sat Apr 1st at 8:36pm 2006

I voted for 1 whilst thinking of inherited mental disorders. What good is there in having children if there is a 98% chance they'll spend their entire lives in an asylum?
On the other hand I can't really picture someone locked in a mental institution having sexual intercourse.




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 Re: Is Sterilization the answer?
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Apr 1st at 8:47pm 2006

? quoting Andrei

On the other hand I can't really picture someone locked in a mental institution having sexual intercourse.

Really? Can you picture it in prison? I cannot, yet it happens all the time.

We do in fact have a colony of sorts for the mentally handicapped. Its a State run institution. I have never worked there, but know many who have. Sex happens. A lot of it from what I have heard.

One thing I have never heard however. Mentally handicapped are as far as I can determine, 100% straight. There are no homosexual downs patients. I assume that this is just a "Non-reportable" issue and that there have got to be some. Strange, that mental patients know its wrong. Funny how they are the supposed "sick" people.

Sadly, they seem to know more than prisoners or, otherwise.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Is Sterilization the answer?
Posted by Spartan on Sat Apr 1st at 10:39pm 2006

What exactly do you mean by sterilization? Do they use drugs on them or keep them apart, what?




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 Re: Is Sterilization the answer?
Posted by rs6 on Sat Apr 1st at 10:44pm 2006

Thats a tough question orph. I am going to have to think about that.



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 Re: Is Sterilization the answer?
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Apr 1st at 10:45pm 2006

? quoting Spartan
What exactly do you mean by sterilization? Do they use drugs on them or keep them apart, what?

Hmm.. As far as I know, they physically make it impossibly to make children.

I am not sure, how.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Is Sterilization the answer?
Posted by mazemaster on Sat Apr 1st at 11:43pm 2006

The state has no business physically altering people's bodies.


http://maze5.net



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 Re: Is Sterilization the answer?
Posted by Spartan on Sat Apr 1st at 11:57pm 2006

? quote:
The state has no business physically altering people's bodies.

Agreed

I can't believe I never heard of this before in Arkansas. Orph where did you hear/read this at?




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 Re: Is Sterilization the answer?
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Sat Apr 1st at 11:57pm 2006

I voted option 4. Sterilizing certain people seems like something out of Nazi germany or a terrible dystopia.




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 Re: Is Sterilization the answer?
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Apr 2nd at 12:05am 2006

? quoting Spartan

? quote:
The state has no business physically altering people's bodies.


Agreed

I can't believe I never heard of this before in Arkansas. Orph where did you hear/read this at?

It used to be known as "The Children's Colony" its now known as "The Conway Human Developmental Center"

/me will look to see if it has an online website.

Nazi has connotations that color ones views poorly. You can disagree with a sentiment without resorting to that Morph. As poor a view as I have for the Nazi's, they did further our medical knowledge by leaps. The way I see it, give those poor people who died (the Jews and such), some purpose. Don't just write them off as a historical mistake.

I personally view sterilization as a viable alternative to creating misfits.

[edit] CHDC has a website..





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Is Sterilization the answer?
Posted by Finger on Sun Apr 2nd at 12:09am 2006

? quoting Andrei

On the other hand I can't really picture someone locked in a mental institution having sexual intercourse.

I worked in 4 different psych hospitals in the early 90's..... I can promise you there is sex.. plenty of it. That was one of the biggest things we had to watch for - crazy people sneaking off and doing 'naughty' things.





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 Re: Is Sterilization the answer?
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Apr 2nd at 12:10am 2006

? quoting Finger
? quoting Andrei
On the other hand I can't really picture someone locked in a mental institution having sexual intercourse.

I worked in 4 different psych hospitals in the early 90's..... I can promise you there is sex.. plenty of it. That was one of the biggest things we had to watch for - crazy people sneaking off and doing 'naughty' things.

You don't have to mention how you voted Finger. I imagine you would have without provocation but, can you verify the sterilization thing? I mean, it may not be universal but, is it known to you?





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Is Sterilization the answer?
Posted by ReNo on Sun Apr 2nd at 1:08am 2006

I don't agree with it personally.



Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net



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 Re: Is Sterilization the answer?
Posted by Gwil on Sun Apr 2nd at 1:14am 2006

The state certainly has business sterilising those that it has failed in terms of education and social welfare, ie they should eliminate mass underage births, and therefore low level criminal activity.

If only there was a chemical which could control chemical balance and hormones we'd be on the right track.

BTW, i'm entirely serious with my first remark. Discuss

Edit: i've seen i'm OT with Orphs thread, so please dont bait my fascist ideas. For disabled people - yes, I think they should be sterilised - even if it does not eliminate the chances of having a child with such afflictions in medicinal science, it would be a good thing in my eyes to 'eliminate' ineffeciencies from the gene poll *whole new argument can spring from this.




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 Re: Is Sterilization the answer?
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Apr 2nd at 1:26am 2006

? quoting Gwil

Edit: i've seen i'm OT with Orphs thread,

Again. This time in American English.

BTW, you been to the pub today? Your sentences lack their usual... Tidiness.

Oh, and I seem to be the only #3.. I seem to be the only one hugging the center of the road this time. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Is Sterilization the answer?
Posted by fishy on Sun Apr 2nd at 1:52am 2006

i remember someting about this, but i'm not sure if the reasons were that people with downs syndrome would be incapable parents, or if it was that the condition is passed on 100% of the time.

anyone know what the real % of passing on downs is?

orph, is this sterilisation for males too?




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 Re: Is Sterilization the answer?
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Apr 2nd at 2:04am 2006

? quoting fishy
anyone know what the real % of passing on downs is?

orph, is this sterilisation for males too?

To my knowledge, as limited as that is, the odds are good that the syndrome is passed on but, not 100% of the time. You see, sometimes downs is not genetically produced. Sometimes its through accidents. Sometimes drugs. Sometimes its cosmic rays. IMO, only truly genetic downs patients would pass on the gene.

And yes, its both males and females. I know of at least one case where the patients, although sterile, got married and proved themselves capable of living outside the care facility. Their lives are limited but they are functional.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Is Sterilization the answer?
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Sun Apr 2nd at 6:50am 2006

The only people I would ever consider being sterilized (reversibly) would be convicted rapists and child molesters, just so they don't impregnate women against their will. The key word is consider. Everything else is out of the question to me.

Alright -- I'll keep nazi's out of the equation, but I still think diversity should be preserved (and shouldn't be underestimated) and blanket steriliziation would create unimagined/unpredicted shortcomings.




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 Re: Is Sterilization the answer?
Posted by Andrei on Sun Apr 2nd at 9:41am 2006


And since we're talking about mental diseases, how does shock therapy work?
You give it a jolt and hope it starts working properly, the same way people hit their tv sets when the image is blurry?




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 Re: Is Sterilization the answer?
Posted by Gwil on Sun Apr 2nd at 10:46am 2006

Yes I was at the pub Orph <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> I still support a view that sterilisation is... sometimes needed.

You'd have to approach it on a case by case basis I guess.





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