I am beginning to get the distinct impression that if a thread isn't "permitted" to derail, its destined to die prematurely. 
I had thought that a thread of this type would have been a hot topic. With all the "forward" thinkers we have here at least.
Sterilization aside for the moment, these communities exist. Not talking about them isn't going to remove them.
They say that "Ignorance is bliss"
I tend to agree with this, to a point. Now, imagine I wasn't born... No don't wish it were so, just imagine it.
If I were not here, no one would be the wiser, not even myself.
Now, imagine me born with a mental illness, or gay. I would rather be not here. Thats as honest as I can put the imaginary thinking. Now, I imagine that there are others alive who wish that their parents knew in advance and had the option of not making them.
Thats harsh thinking but I bet its true in some instances.
I believe its a parents obligation to produce the most error free offspring they are capable of achieving. If the offspring have "Zero" chance at this, then sterilization is the only viable option.
Any parent who knowingly reproduces, knowing the chances are slim to none for normalcy, should be punished... SEVERELY!!!
Now thats where I stand on the subject. Like it, or lump it.
ok.....ive stayed out of this discussion because, well, i wanted to see what some of the attitudes were.....and i really dont have a plausble theory set on this.....but.
*posted by orph
Now, imagine me born with a mental illness, or gay. I would rather be not here.
how do you get to that point jon?....the incapacitation would deter you from true comprehension of life, and environment....at least as far as the mental illness aspect goes....as for the gay part, i still do NOT believe that folks are born gay; IMHO.... let me make it clear....i feel its a concious choice, stemming from a multitude of reasons, circumstances, environment, etc....not a derivation of a "mental condition" or disfunction....if it were, would we not treat it as such as a society?...."im on disability because im gay..." hmm....i dont think so.....just my opinion though, which is like an ass, it usually stinks.....
Doc B...
I see myself, 10 or 20, maybe 30 years from now and I don't like it much.
I see old people in the checkout at Wal-Mart and they have no clue what they were doing just a minute before. These are people who have no previous mental disability and now.. I cannot imagine a child born this way and what kind of a parent would knowingly do so.
Forget the gay issue. I feel its a brain damaged scenario at best but for all intents of purpose, NOT a debilitating ailment. I just included it because its such a horrible thing and some consider it mental.
In the end, the thread's purpose is to establish a way/means of preventing children being born into a less than ideal situation.
If sterilization makes you squeamish, by all means, post an alternative. I am game. Its not as if we are going to make an impact in the world by just talking about this.
Doc, you know my views on the Gay issue.. I feel that one less born, is one less to deal with.. No one, not even Gay people wish they were born that way.
For all those who were not here in days gone by. I feel Gays are made not born, so it shows my willingness to be open minded as to the origins of the people in this topic. If it were my vote alone, the gay issue would never be included into a "born" theory thread.
Although human history seems contrary to the thought, you cannot avoid doing something, that might lead to "more"
I would like to think that some intelligence would play a factor in the equation. But, as I said, history seems to prove that out false.
I, would hope that you could think of another, more important reason than "could lead into more" If not, why create fission, it leads into bombs... Oh, theres that whole nuclear energy thing but, who cares about that?
Why do anything, it could lead into....
I believe a firm line can be drawn. I simply have to believe that there can.
Well, I chose OTHER. I think that a governing board of smart, down-to-earth, non-bleeding-heart people should decide each case and establish precedents for future cases.
I fully agree with the sterilization of LOTS of unfit types of people. Humans are becoming more and more.. what's the word... "crappy" every generation. seriosuly, if we could stop some of these genes from ever being transmitted, we would get BETTER again like we always did before all this crap we got going on today with "tolerance" and all that.
Plus I tihnk cosmetic surgery should be outlawed. It's "genetic false advertising!!" sterilize ppl who have cosmetic surgery too...
Second, I think that if gays were TRULY gay, wouldn't they not HAVE kids? i mean... if homosexuality is genetic WHERE does the gene come from? If it's a mutation of a normal gene found in straight people, then it is classifyable as a disorder, which is NOT something gays want, right?
*posted by nickelback
Well, I chose OTHER. I think that a governing board of smart, down-to-earth, non-bleeding-heart people should decide each case and establish precedents for future cases.
I fully agree with the sterilization of LOTS of unfit types of people. Humans are becoming more and more.. what's the word... "crappy" every generation. seriosuly, if we could stop some of these genes from ever being transmitted, we would get BETTER again like we always did before all this crap we got going on today with "tolerance" and all that.
im kinda surprised at this set of comments coming from you nickel....seems....contrary to all you seem to espouse.... :/ and, if i may, as far as "getting better" as a human race, itll take alot more than "geneology"....and another consideration:for every gene that has been "cured", i feel pretty safe in saying, with all the experimental biological crap going on (thats another whole thread at least) i wonder what will be mutated because we DONT know what long term results will be.....how many drugs just recently have been pulled from the market after years of use, and finally someone realizes, "s**t, i f**ked that formula up good"....remember agent orange anybody? took 20 years for the government to even acknowledge it was a real screwup....
....and these are just a few we know of....the point is, the mistakes will be rectified, one way or the other, and new mistakes will take their place....we are too arrogant as a species to let nature do its thing...
*posted by mazemaster
Let me clarify a bit - sterilization is basically society saying to someone: "We are superior to you, and we deem you unworthy of living. However, since we can't outright kill you, we'll just stop you from having children".
brutal, but realatively true, imho....i'd almost have to agree with you on that one mazey.....but there are circumstances in which sterilization should be the option of choice....alas, mental retardation is NOT one of them....
however, a sexual predator should be....well.....denutted with a spoon....
all in the circumstances, imo
Doc B....
Somehow, I bet that there is a million or so rape victims who would disagree with you Nick.
I just happen to be one of those people who think that there are more candidates than criminals.
I beg to differ. The common denominator as I specified, is a mental illness. Downs syndrome, was but one aspect. The only one, you seemed to key in upon. Perhaps, the only one you acknowledge as a mental illness???
The way I understand it, the mechanism that causes people to kill or rape or commit any bodily injury resides within the brain. That mechanism must be broken in some way or the person would never have committed the action.
Same holds true for homosexuality. Something in the brain is either disconnected, or broken.
The topic was about sterilization, but it was also to determine exactly what was "Mental" enough.
In your opinion, simple mental illness isn't a strong enough reason to do it. You defense is "Against their will"
In the case of true Downs syndrome patients, they have no will of their own, or, they would be functional humans. The concept of a Downs patient being capable of free will precludes them of it.
Your argument fails to establish free will as a defense Nick.
In the end, the commonality is "Mental" .. Thats the relationship you are, or should be searching for.
Forget the Criminal vs. Non criminal aspect. Its totally irrelevant.
