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Recruiting forum?
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 Re: Recruiting forum?
Posted by Vash on Tue Apr 4th at 2:30pm 2006

So, I noticed that - while in my absence - there was quite the absence of forum updates. I love the Snarkpit, but it seems a bit bare when compared to many other forums. I was wondering if there would ever be the possible addition of a recruitment forum? I mean, jesus, we have a Radiant Editor forum that hasn't been used since November, what would be so bad about dropping it (since this site is primarily composed of Half-Life level designers). Right now I'm looking for a person or two to help with some issues I am having in my future mod, but they are model / animation based. I don't really know if the Snarkpit is the right place to be looking for animators, but it is still worth a try.

I know that this forum can usually be used as a recruitment forum, but it's a tad odd to mix general discussions and editing requests. So, regardless of "my" needs, it would still be a useful update to the site. We don't need to clutter the site by adding eight thousand sub-forums, but one or two wouldn't hurt.

(P.S: I do realize that Leperous is the only person to do this update, however it seems he died in the great bird war of 1952, but I heard sometimes his ghost still hangs around the air here...Some say if you be really quiet you can hear his limbs falling off...)



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 Re: Recruiting forum?
Posted by ReNo on Tue Apr 4th at 3:08pm 2006

We did have one for a while, but every post tended to end badly. It was too often the case that people weren't interested in working for the mod, but WERE interested in telling them how much their mod sucks. In the end it seemed that it was giving the site a bad name, so by losing the forum, I guess we stopped encouraging recruitment posts (that were essentially luring people into getting flamed <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">). As you say, its a feature that makes sense and it does seem a bit wierd to have it missing, but I'm not sure if it is worth the stress to be honest!

Oh and for future reference, use the "site suggestions" sticky at the top of the page for this sort of thing please mate, ta <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">



Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net



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 Re: Recruiting forum?
Posted by Vash on Tue Apr 4th at 3:10pm 2006

Will do. I've been gone for quite some time, still trying to get used to the interface again.



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 Re: Recruiting forum?
Posted by ReNo on Tue Apr 4th at 3:19pm 2006

No problem <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> Oh and welcome back - not sure if I've said that to you yet! Many thanks for all the recent contributions too, as you seem to be a one man tutorial and editing question answering machine right now <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">



Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net



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 Re: Recruiting forum?
Posted by Vash on Tue Apr 4th at 3:24pm 2006

Thanks. I'm always open to suggestions, if you don't understand an entity or how something was done in Half-Life 2 and can't find a tutorial on it I'd be more than happy to write one.



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 Re: Recruiting forum?
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Apr 4th at 4:03pm 2006

? quoting Vash
Thanks. I'm always open to suggestions,

Really? I seem to recall a suggestion where you put your head....

*thwacks*

Oh, yeah.. Ahem..

Suggestions about tutorial.. NOW I understand.

*giggles*





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Recruiting forum?
Posted by Vash on Tue Apr 4th at 4:07pm 2006

I've got a package for you: It's my fist. I FedEx'd it right to your face. Handled with care.



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 Re: Recruiting forum?
Posted by Forceflow on Tue Apr 4th at 4:08pm 2006

The Radiant editor forum was my idea a loooong time ago. Kornflakes was writing good COD-tutorials, and I was into Jedi Knight II: Outcast myself.

I think we can get rid of it indeed, and make it a recruitment forum.


:: Forceflow.be :: Nuclear Dawn developer



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 Re: Recruiting forum?
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Apr 4th at 4:20pm 2006

Well since Korn is moderating it, he might have a sayso about its usefulness.

The problem I see with a recruiting forum is its lack of "Helpful" feedback.

If a moderator was willing to be.... tactfully intuitive, I think it could be a useful forum. It might invite some outside blood. It could also invite the immaturity of the other forums that have such a place too.

Personally, I do not look forward to it because of the people it attracts. Thats just my feeling though so feel free to ignore it.

I would only vote for it if, the moderator was as dedicated to it, as I am for screenshots. Yes, it would take that level of anal attitude to keep those types in check.

/2 cents





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Recruiting forum?
Posted by Myrk- on Tue Apr 4th at 5:07pm 2006

The site goes through up and down periods. You'll find the summer gets very bare as half the people go into the sunlight, the other half stay inside thier caves playing games and occasionally bobbing in and out of these forums with really, really boring topics- cumon they haven't done anything to inspire interesting conversation!

September/October usually sees the return of all the uni/school peeps posting as they return to thier menial routine of lectures and alcohol/drugs/study.

Tbh, with all the multiple topics, there should be a Recently forum! Maybe coded differently to allow smoother searching of the topics etc, like maps maybe add a film and then peoples comments come afterwards, and people post links to reviews etc. That would help diversify the site to allow anyone to be a member, with the central theme of the site being game editing of course- more specifically HL2. I'll talk to lep this evening about it, he should be home from teaching the youngun's GCSE maths any moment now.




-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-



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 Re: Recruiting forum?
Posted by KoRnFlakes on Tue Apr 4th at 5:11pm 2006

I'm not fussed personally, havent touched mapping in a very long time.



My Pit



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 Re: Recruiting forum?
Posted by Vash on Tue Apr 4th at 5:19pm 2006

Mapping asks you why you won't touch it anymore. You're not the man mapping married.



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 Re: Recruiting forum?
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Apr 4th at 8:20pm 2006

? quoting Vash
Mapping asks you why you won't touch it anymore. You're not the man mapping married.

Well, maybe mapping requires a bigger machine than Korn can deal with. Maybe mapping has a leak or her R's are just to big for his drivers.

Maybe, Korn had a PII rig and she requires a PIV..

*mumbles*

Maybe shes a f**king bitch to compile...





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Recruiting forum?
Posted by reaper47 on Tue Apr 4th at 8:38pm 2006

I think that mappers generally tend to work freelance and search for mods they're interested in themselves.

I don't think that's because we're "egomaniacs", it's just the way mods usually work. Many good ones started with very basic test-maps made by the programmer (or a good friend) for the first beta. It's more efficient because at this early stage the programmer knows more about gameplay than any mapper could and can try out things quickly. Because of the huge delays that come from internet projects this would take much longer if there were more people involved. That's why mods need a very small but dedicated and all-round team in the beginning and experimentation phase and build up from here.

If the result is good and intersting - no matter how bad it looks - mappers will flock from everywhere because they're interested in the challange of making maps for a new gameplay concept (and think about how to make them look good).

mhm... just a thought on why "recruitment" threads often fail. Don't know if this can be applied to any mod. I just see a lot of mods today with huge recruited teams that either take years for the first beta release or die even before that.



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 Re: Recruiting forum?
Posted by Vash on Tue Apr 4th at 8:50pm 2006

The community is backwards right now. Too many people are worried about aesthetics that don't pertain to the actual mod itself. Websites, message boards, newsletters, "IRC Channels" - none of this s**t is necessary, and yet they make it their top priority. Also, way too many modders announce their projects immediately after thinking it up - and I don't mean sketching down ideas, doing research or actually working - I mean when they are sitting on the toilet and think "Counter-Strike would be pretty cool if you could fly jetpacks and drive motorcycles".

Original ideas isn't something modding sports these days. It seems like every mod that is based of a World War or a futuristic war gets an entire team dedicated to working, however new, original ideas only get one guy. It's stupid. Why do people feel the need to have eight thousand realistic warfare mods? Three is more than enough. Hell, two would be sufficient. Yet they keep coming.

Mappers aren't anything. You can find mappers anywhere. What it really takes is programmers. They are the core. You can use existing models for new code - hell, Garry did it. You can use small, developer room maps to test. You can reuse all the content in Half-Life 2, except for the code (I know you can reuse it, get off my back, you know what I mean). Too many people wait around for someone to do their work for them as they sit back and schedule interviews with PCGamer or EGM talking about the rapid success of their modification, instead of actually getting off their asses and doing something.



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 Re: Recruiting forum?
Posted by Dark_Kilauea on Tue Apr 4th at 9:16pm 2006

Indeed,

I find a lot of mods have lost the focus of a mod as well. Making a mod should be about having fun, not making the next big thing. I've seen to many mods that blow there ideas bigger and bigger until the goal is just unreachable.

I also see mods start with mapping before the scripts are written, or the gameplay figured out. The order is all wrong. You need to have the mod planned out, where everyone on the team can see it at any time. Every person needs to know exactly what to do. Of course, creativity should be encouraged, but wanting to put in a room that has nothing to do with the story is useless.

Also, you need a plan for any mappers, so the scale is the same on all the maps. I know this seems like a minor problem, but I see it too much, along with conflicting themes in the architecture. Shiny corridors, with a plain plastic crew quarters looks really crappy (true story...).

Communication is also nessesary. I'd say the best way to ensure that work gets done on time is a least weekly meetings with the entire team. Without something like that, departments get off course with each other.

Sorry if this is a bit long. I had a bad experience with Borgwars, a HL2 mod a while back. It sparked the creation of Deep Velocity Studios, the mod group I'm with now.


Dark_Kilauea
DVS Administration
http://www.dvstudio-production.com/



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 Re: Recruiting forum?
Posted by ReNo on Tue Apr 4th at 9:33pm 2006

You seem a bit contradictary in that post to be honest. First of all you say its all about having fun and not taking it all so seriously, then you say you must have a completely detailed plan to work to from the get go. I'm not saying one or the other is wrong - I think both the relaxed approach to development and the highly organised approach can work for different people and different games - but it just seems a bit contradictary to expect both at once.



Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net



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 Re: Recruiting forum?
Posted by Captain P on Tue Apr 4th at 11:17pm 2006

Interesting points. Gameplay rules indeed.



Though at the end of the day, graphics still do sell. But, that's at the end of the day, there's gotta be some gameplay to hold it together.
Reminds me of the difference between what I call gameplay- and content-driven games. Do you rely on a ruleset for opponents to use, or on story, novel things and what we call scripting? It seems most people think content-driven because that's what you can see, touch, feel. Gameplay is less apparant and takes time and experience to grasp, I think. No wonder game-designer isn't an entry-level application in game studios. Otherwise we'd have even more WW-II shooters. :P

// Gets back programming. Err, sleeping first. Yeah. Good night!


Create-ivity - a game development blog



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 Re: Recruiting forum?
Posted by Vash on Tue Apr 4th at 11:23pm 2006

We should attempt a mod where we only use a set number of textures. Twenty textures, five models, and ten sounds. And we build an entire mod on this, just to show you don't need tons of content to make a fun game.



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 Re: Recruiting forum?
Posted by Pegs on Tue Apr 4th at 11:37pm 2006

? quote:
We should attempt a mod where we only use a set number of textures. Twenty textures, five models, and ten sounds. And we build an entire mod on this, just to show you don't need tons of content to make a fun game.


Sounds like some kind of HL2 - Worms to me lol :P




Yes, My spelling is still terrible!




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