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What if Valve (or other companies) charged for SDK's?
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 Re: What if Valve (or other companies) charged for SDK's?
Posted by Vash on Wed Apr 5th at 1:18am 2006

I was browsing around the VERC, and came across a topic where a user was wondering where he could buy the SDK so he could create maps. He was, of course, shown that the SDK was free, but something hit me: What if SDK's (regardless of game) were only available if you purchased them. What state would the mod community be in? Would we still have all these crappy "de_dust_glass_surf_hdr_rats" maps floating around? Or would it be tons of high-quality work with the occasional beginner map? Would people spend more time working since they had to invest money into their dream?

Don't answer with "but someone would just crack the SDK" - yes, they would. But, for a minute, pretend the Internet is a place where people respect other peoples work.



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 Re: What if Valve (or other companies) charged for SDK's?
Posted by ReNo on Wed Apr 5th at 1:33am 2006

I think it would put a fair few people off - level design (or other areas of development requiring the SDK) aren't necessarily things that people KNOW they will like, and if they don't have the opportunity to try it out for free, whats to say they will try it out at all? Whether or not scaring off those people is a good thing or a bad thing is down to personal opinion of course <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">

All in all I think it would be a smaller community by far, which is probably not a good thing. People might be a bit more dedicated to the cause, due to the investment they had made, but I imagine the SDKs would be cheap anyway. Reall though, it just doesn't really make much sense for companies to charge for SDKs. Releasing their tools and helping a modding community extend their product's life significantly (well, if the tools and engine are good), so it makes perfect sense to release them free.



Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net



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 Re: What if Valve (or other companies) charged for SDK's?
Posted by Vash on Wed Apr 5th at 1:37am 2006

I know it doesn't make sense to charge for SDK's, and - given a choice - I would never vote to change this. They should always be free, but it's one of those parallel universe scenarios. You know, "What if I had done this?", "What if I had turned left instead of right?", "What if I hadn't ever killed Leperous and wore his skin?"



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 Re: What if Valve (or other companies) charged for SDK's?
Posted by omegaslayer on Wed Apr 5th at 1:45am 2006

It puts the lotion in the basket -

I think the mod community wouldn't be as strong as it is if you had to pay for the SDK.



Posting And You



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 Re: What if Valve (or other companies) charged for SDK's?
Posted by Hugh on Wed Apr 5th at 1:57am 2006

It'd raise the question of if you bought the SDK, whether or not that would qualify as a license to sell whatever stuff you come up with as well.


One day you'll know what you're talking about, I can hardly imagine

Maps! - Audio blog!



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 Re: What if Valve (or other companies) charged for SDK's?
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Apr 5th at 2:01am 2006

The only thing that keeps games of this type popular is its user level of interaction. If it were not available, more people would avoid it. Simply speaking, Deathmatch and its ilk wouldn't be so fun if we had to depend on the makers to release maps. Theirs tend to be over simplistic to cope with all the baseline machines.

Games like Half-life would die shortly after the single player adventure was completed. Thats sad, but I feel close to the truth.

Sadly, games got boring when they took cooperative mode out of the mix. I loved completing a game with a partner. I played Doom II and all the coop games over and over again. I have never finished anything since except Unreal II.. Nothing else. and.. I own practically every FPS game there is.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: What if Valve (or other companies) charged for SDK's?
Posted by Vash on Wed Apr 5th at 2:02am 2006

The Warriors is the greatest coop experience to come out in years. Pick that s**t up.



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 Re: What if Valve (or other companies) charged for SDK's?
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Apr 5th at 2:04am 2006

You mean the game they made about the movie?

[edit] there is no PC version... and I don't play consoles...





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: What if Valve (or other companies) charged for SDK's?
Posted by Vash on Wed Apr 5th at 2:08am 2006

Yeah, it is a really, really great adaption of the movie (which I am a fan of) and also essintially revives the beat 'em up genre. Buy a console and enjoy it. Sometimes you need to venture outside of your computer realm.



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 Re: What if Valve (or other companies) charged for SDK's?
Posted by Crono on Wed Apr 5th at 2:22am 2006

Just wait a litle longer, Rockstar always releases a PC version sooner or later. However, I'm sure you'll still need a controller to play it properly. Use one of your son's consoles, you old goon.

Computer realism ... but consoles are ... f**k it.


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: What if Valve (or other companies) charged for SDK's?
Posted by Nickelplate on Wed Apr 5th at 2:28am 2006

I think it'd be totally wack to charge for SDKs. It'd be just like the games themselves: nobody really WANTS to pay for them, you know? I know I wouldn't, and lately I've been trying not to get cracked or illegal stuff, so I probably would stop mapping. This would be a big loss forthe mapping comunity because of... well, it really wouldn't be...


I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



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 Re: What if Valve (or other companies) charged for SDK's?
Posted by rs6 on Wed Apr 5th at 2:28am 2006

With out a free SDK, HL1 probably wouldn't have lasted as long as it has. Fewer mods would have been created, and fewer custom maps.

On the good side, only the dedicated would pay, so less killboxes created, and more quality work created would be a likely cause.



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 Re: What if Valve (or other companies) charged for SDK's?
Posted by Toast King on Wed Apr 5th at 3:13am 2006

Even though it might decrease the amount of aim_fy_icworld_remde_dusttt_2K6_101_1337_colt_ak47_mix_aztec maps, it will prevent people from being to be creative in this form of game design, and thus more brainless shooting and less creative fun, and it would damage these communities badly. Also I find that SDK's add to a game's value, thus I want to buy it more.


Hahaha! Im using the INTERNET!



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 Re: What if Valve (or other companies) charged for SDK's?
Posted by Agent Smith on Wed Apr 5th at 4:52am 2006

The only problem with crap, quick maps is not so much that people make them, its that they get more playtime on servers than good maps. And of course when people play a good map on a custom map server and they all do a vote map for some other rubbish because its "fun" and only takes 10 seconds to download, as opposed to a couple of minutes. Thats the only gripe I have. I wouldn't mind people making crap maps if they didn't get any playtime on servers, and for a change mine did <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">.



Ham and Jam Contributor
http://www.hamandjam.org

'Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!'



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 Re: What if Valve (or other companies) charged for SDK's?
Posted by Belgarion on Wed Apr 5th at 5:10am 2006

probably? i'm definetly sure it wouldn't have. we would not have CS... that alone just stomps the growth of HL. seriously, without CS, HL would have fallen to the wayside like many of the countless FPS games before and after it.

but what about people just trying it? I tried to pick it up once back in nineth or tenth grade, but didn't spend more than 15 minutes on it. then tried again a year later, got into it a little, but never took it anywhere. then a year after that I found out about NS (before it was released) and then bam... i was hooked on mapping. that was it. Senior year, I did not do homework. I mapped.

so there you have it. I pretty much know I'd never have gotten into mapping if it were priced.


___My Site___ | www.leveldesign.nl



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 Re: What if Valve (or other companies) charged for SDK's?
Posted by mazemaster on Wed Apr 5th at 6:38am 2006

No one starts as an expert, and a noob sure as hell isnt going to pay for a SDK.


http://maze5.net



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 Re: What if Valve (or other companies) charged for SDK's?
Posted by reaper47 on Wed Apr 5th at 11:08am 2006

? quote:
What if SDK's (regardless of game) were only available if you purchased them. What state would the mod community be in?


That would be the stupidest thing Valve could do. It's like saying "Yes, you may keep our community alive by countless hours of producing free content for others but you have to pay for it!"



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 Re: What if Valve (or other companies) charged for SDK's?
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Wed Apr 5th at 2:11pm 2006

I think reaching the most people possible is great, and charging for the SDK would inhibit this greatly. The number of casual mappers who grew into great mappers would definitely decrease.




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 Re: What if Valve (or other companies) charged for SDK's?
Posted by Captain P on Wed Apr 5th at 4:29pm 2006

I wouldn't have been here if the HL SDK wasn't free. I've been mapping for some games before HL, but that was peanuts compared to what I've learned in the past 6 years of HL mapping. I'm not the kind of guy who buys something over the internet that easily either, so even if I would've heard about it, I wonder if I would have gotten it.

Yes, it would certainly keep down the amount of 'dumb' maps, but also hinder, or even block, some great would-be designers, and keep the community in general down because resources would be much more limited (aren't coders hard to find? Well, just imagine how hard they would be to find in such case).


Create-ivity - a game development blog



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 Re: What if Valve (or other companies) charged for SDK's?
Posted by G.Ballblue on Wed Apr 5th at 4:53pm 2006

Well, there certainly wouldn't be as many mods out there: moving along Vash's parallel lines theory, you could almost think of it as a time-theory. Simply by making people buy the SDK could have, for all we know, destroyed Sven-Coop, or The Specialists, or even Counter-Strike

Also, like Reno said, I wouldn't go near a SDK or development tool that wouldn't at least let me try it out. I'm not paying another 40$ just to wind up with another crap Genisis3D 11, like how I did when I started mapping.




Breaking the laws of mapping since 2003 and doing a damn fine job at it




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