Posted by Crono on Sat Apr 15th at 10:15pm 2006
The actual process of making a room and filling it with crap is not difficult and is well documented, so saying that is the sole purpose of this "competition" is a farce.
If however, you had a category dealing with complexity, innovation, and/or originality (I don't know if this was covered) it would drive the focus more on learning new techniques.
Furthermore, what is the grading criteria? Is each on a point scale? Do certain mistakes retract a given amount of points? E.G.: Two brushed are obviously overlapped, minus 1/2 a point. (You can round points at the end, by the way) ... but you can also put the whole thing out of ... like 100 or 150, so it reflects the map's merits better. The best example I can think of off hand would be Iron Chef's judging system. Some categories can be worth more than others, etc.
Define everything before it starts! The judging scale, amount of judges ... hell how're things going to be rounded? Round? Ceiling? Floor? (I would suggest Floor, actually)
I suppose these are some things to think about.
Also, once it's over. It'd make sense to only release the source from the winning maps. What if there's a map that is just a god awful room that does EVERYTHING wrong. Would you really want people learning from that??
Instead, I'd suggest, the top X% of maps ... like everyone who scored above x points, right, would go back (when they could) and implemented a text teaching type thing (along the lines of the lost coast) then release the source of the map without that. So, it fully covered everything they did.
I mean, if you want to teach people, do it right. Otherwise, it's just a competition. Make it a competition in teaching, or something as such.
I'd be interested in joining in, but I wont have time until the middle of June ... until the end of June. Like two weeks maybe. After that I have off and on time. So, I may or may not enter.
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Apr 15th at 10:33pm 2006
Every complex competition has stalled, and died. We, The people of Snarkpit, have had no competitions since HL1 and I feel its time to be overly simplistic. At least where a competition is concerned.
Look fellas, I know that you are picturing a room thats 12 feet by 12 feet or something, BUT I am imagining a room like a football stadium, with all the exits roped off. I envision a race track, where you are "restricted" to the pit zone, but can look longingly into the stands. I crave to see a map that looks like a baseball diamond, where you cannot get off the pitchers mound.
Don't restrict your goals to a boxy thing like your f**king living room. ![]()
Crono, I respect you more than you know, but your over complicating the concept into the grave, and I refuse to allow it to die because it needs to be more demanding. ![]()
Orpheus
member
13860 posts
1547 snarkmarks
Registered: Aug 26th 2001
Location: Long Oklahoma - USA

Occupation: Long Haul Trucking
The best things in life, aren't things.
Posted by Crono on Sat Apr 15th at 11:24pm 2006
You said you want this astronomical area ... then you want to teach people with it ... last time I checked, one thing you really don't want to do is build an incredibly large open area. Yet, you want to use it as a learning tool??
This is making little sense, to be honest.
The only thing someone can learn from a VMF is either brush construction or entity work ... which is why I suggest complexity. How intricate is the map, for example. You can have complex detail. Also, having a gauge of complexity doesn't mean the thing has to be complex. That should make sense.
All I suggested was an easy way to gauge the entries and then I gave some suggestions to make the overall effort more successful. If that's not what you want, so be it.
2 reasonable suggestions aren't going to complicate the thing into the ground. It appears that you just don't want to do the prep work
But, anyway, let me ask you then: What are you judging on? What is the actual purpose? To have a competition of design? Functionality? Or teaching?
As I said before, your concept of using a poorly running area for teaching is fundamentally flawed, but I can understand how ideas can be taken from it.
Be more specific. What is the point of all this. Enough wishy-washy "Well I want this that and the other thing even though they all conflict".
Make up your mind!
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Apr 15th at 11:40pm 2006
Make up your mind!
You are making the 12x12 living room more appealing every moment. " SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">
I think that this is payback for all the razzing I have given you over the years.
All I ask is, do not over complicate this. The concept is open to interpretation restricted by only your imagination and no exits.
I see nothing more to add, or base this thing upon. You do, no one else does... Yet.
It has never mattered before whether you understood the context of one of my replies. Why should it matter now?
Orpheus
member
13860 posts
1547 snarkmarks
Registered: Aug 26th 2001
Location: Long Oklahoma - USA

Occupation: Long Haul Trucking
The best things in life, aren't things.
Posted by BlisTer on Sun Apr 16th at 1:31am 2006
same here. + i've got a music event that i'm organising in the beginning of May. Still, i'm willing to have a go at it (even though my experience with snarkpit competitions hasnt been the best one
).
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Apr 16th at 1:50am 2006
With only 13 votes and just 9 of those sure fired "Yes" I think thats the least of our worries.
Seems either people want to make mountains out of mole hills, or.... Some people just want every competition to fail.
To tell the truth, I am running out of ideas to motivate this site. If this doesn't work, I'm through trying.
Prefabland was, at its peak, had a massive amount of hits daily. Its now a defunct website. It died for many of the same reasons Snarkpit is experiencing recently. Think on that awhile.
I'm through trying to promote this idea. If its going to succeed, it needs another voice. I had hoped that mine alone would have been sufficient. But, I am beginning to suspect differently.
/ rant
Orpheus
member
13860 posts
1547 snarkmarks
Registered: Aug 26th 2001
Location: Long Oklahoma - USA

Occupation: Long Haul Trucking
The best things in life, aren't things.
Posted by G4MER on Sun Apr 16th at 10:10am 2006
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Apr 16th at 11:59am 2006
It seems that other than a few grumbles about its theme, the main complain/concern is "Time"
I propose that we begin this soon, to forestall its death, but concentrate on a deadline. A respectable deadline.
I understand that many cannot join until late May/early June, but that cannot be avoided. There are always going to be some who have time constraint issues and we cannot wait for 100% user accessibility.
So, with that said, I suggest that we begin, within a week and have a deadline somewhere around June 30th, but no later than July 31st.
I figure, that even those in school, can begin but work on it only marginally until their course work is complete. Yet, those with ideas that they want to implement will not have to wait overmuch.
Opinions?
Orpheus
member
13860 posts
1547 snarkmarks
Registered: Aug 26th 2001
Location: Long Oklahoma - USA

Occupation: Long Haul Trucking
The best things in life, aren't things.
Posted by BlisTer on Sun Apr 16th at 12:44pm 2006
With only 13 votes and just 9 of those sure fired "Yes" I think thats the least of our worries.
heh, i wasnt expecting anyone to worry, i was just letting of some steam.. and possibly pointing out that if you want to draw lessons from the previous compo, dont neglect the fact that there might not be enough motivation amongst the judges to judge..
actually orph, you gain my respect for being one of the few around that has the motivation to organize this and boost a new mapping elan into snarkpit.
that's why i say bygones, and i'll try to find time to work on a room.
18 ppl said yes, none said no. if most of those 18 participate, along with a few lurkers, chances are we'll have enough material. now let's see if it can get judged
your timeline seems ok, so let's start " SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Apr 16th at 1:18pm 2006
I feel really badly that the last competition flopped. So many, put so much time and effort into their maps too.
To this day, I dunno why it never completed.
As far as organizational skills. I organized one of the biggest HL1DM maps to ever see near completion. In the end, it died just when HL2 was released. It was 90-99% finished.
I don't want another one of my projects to die. I expect a site wide assistance program to see to it that it doesn't.
At least, thats my hope.
Orpheus
member
13860 posts
1547 snarkmarks
Registered: Aug 26th 2001
Location: Long Oklahoma - USA

Occupation: Long Haul Trucking
The best things in life, aren't things.
Posted by fishy on Sun Apr 16th at 2:32pm 2006
i don't see any point in making a half-hearted attempt. nor do i see any point in putting my current maps on hold for a month, just so that i can make a fancy room.
i'm not against it, but i don't imagine i'll be joining in.
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Apr 16th at 2:36pm 2006
Would you be interested in a peer position?
I know that its going to come up but, with my connection its not going to be a position that I want. I would however like people of your caliber to referee this thing.
Orpheus
member
13860 posts
1547 snarkmarks
Registered: Aug 26th 2001
Location: Long Oklahoma - USA

Occupation: Long Haul Trucking
The best things in life, aren't things.
Posted by fishy on Sun Apr 16th at 3:01pm 2006
Would you be interested in a peer position?
standing behind a tree? ![]()
or an open vote, possibly a thread where people say what map they think should win, and why, would be better than an anonimous poll, or a select few judges. maybe have a few experienced people to oversee the thread, to ensure the votes have been cast in favour of the map, and not the mapper.
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Apr 16th at 3:22pm 2006
I meant peer as = to overseer.
The problem with a vote is, the polling system will only accommodate 6 votes so it cannot be used.
An overseer would collect the votes delivered to him, probably by the PM system and make sure that each person votes only once and that the vote is as fair as possible.
IE, I couldn't vote for a Doc Rock map now if I had to with a gun to my head.
People like you, honest enough IMO, could overseer the competition, and in so contribute to the competition in a way thats important, but not tie you down to an editor for a month.
Course, we could have a poll on possible overseers. *shrugs*
I wouldn't turn down the position, I would do my part but people would have to understand my handicap with 56k and not be rude about my slow responses.
Orpheus
member
13860 posts
1547 snarkmarks
Registered: Aug 26th 2001
Location: Long Oklahoma - USA

Occupation: Long Haul Trucking
The best things in life, aren't things.
Posted by rival on Sun Apr 16th at 4:12pm 2006
we've established we are going to be judging on creativity and originality. this is going to be a mapping art contest. how do they judge artwork? I dont know, but that is how we should go about it.
I am defitnely in and i think this is a great idea and should go forward. we should pull together quickly sort out judges and begin!
i think the judges should be those we all agree make great maps.
rival
member
512 posts
81 snarkmarks
Registered: Apr 7th 2005
Location: inverness

Occupation: being a pain in the ass
"I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!"
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Apr 16th at 4:21pm 2006
That would be a worse stipulation than my saying all the VMFs should be released.
I don't make great maps, and I think me qualified to judge.
I cannot speak for anyone else, but I can think of quite a few qualified people who have little or no released maps. s**t, I have 9 of them and all s**t.
I do think we need at least 3 overseers to break any ties and whatnot.
Orpheus
member
13860 posts
1547 snarkmarks
Registered: Aug 26th 2001
Location: Long Oklahoma - USA

Occupation: Long Haul Trucking
The best things in life, aren't things.
Posted by fishy on Sun Apr 16th at 4:24pm 2006
i meant an open vote in a thread, where each person gets one post, to say what map they think should win, and why. maybe even have a vote on 1st, 2nd and 3rd place, with someone doing some fancy number crunching to work out the final results.
i also think there's a lot to be said in favour of limiting the filesize of the entries.
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Apr 16th at 4:38pm 2006
I agree. To a point.
I just downloaded a 23 meg monster this morning... To prove a point but, I wouldn't want to do that 20-30 times. Took me over 2 hours.
But, I am going to use 100% stock textures, and I hope no custom models (one never knows) but my idea is large enough that I am not to sure how big the file size will be.
I would hate to break the rules but I would hate worse to cut my file size down and ruin the map.
This all assumes that my paltry skills can bring to fruition my idea " SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">
Also, many have expressed an interest in custom textures. Those puppies add up fast in a zip. Even wadincluded.
Orpheus
member
13860 posts
1547 snarkmarks
Registered: Aug 26th 2001
Location: Long Oklahoma - USA

Occupation: Long Haul Trucking
The best things in life, aren't things.
Posted by Gwil on Sun Apr 16th at 4:50pm 2006
I'd do it but I get the feeling airmail is distinctly expensive for a man with no money
Gwil
super admin
2864 posts
293 snarkmarks
Registered: Oct 13th 2001
Location: Derbyshire, UK

Occupation: Student

Snarkpit v6.1.0 created this page in 0.0277 seconds.

