2006 Mapping competition.
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Re: 2006 Mapping competition.
Posted by G.Ballblue on Fri Apr 14th at 5:10pm 2006


Thought: Allow both HL2 and HL1 maps, since there are still a lot of mappers who haven't gotten around to HL2 mapping for their own reasons

(possibly consider different grading criteria for the two different types?)



Breaking the laws of mapping since 2003 and doing a damn fine job at it



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Re: 2006 Mapping competition.
Posted by BlisTer on Fri Apr 14th at 6:31pm 2006


we first need to decide if it's gonna be a killbox contest or a room contest. A killbox involves gameplay and has certain minimum dimensions, whereas a room has no dimension restrictions and is basicly a 3D painting.

Also, if custom models are allowed, i say custom textures should be allowed too. allowing them would be making your 3D painting more beautiful. maybe have a vote on this too?




These words are my diaries screaming out loud



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Re: 2006 Mapping competition.
Posted by Juim on Fri Apr 14th at 8:29pm 2006


I vote HL2 only. The time has come for those of you not mapping for hl2 to get up to speed. As far as a room vs a killbox, That seems to be simply a matter of semantics. If, as the rules say, playability is not a factor, than whatever purpose the room has is irrelevant as a judging factor.



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Re: 2006 Mapping competition.
Posted by Captain P on Fri Apr 14th at 10:09pm 2006


This compo sounds interesting. I won't say I'll join - got some other priorities to handle - but it's a nice compo that requires little initial effort yet allows more for those who want it. Good idea there, Orph. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

It may be nice to put in some singleplayer playability for those who want to do so, like a puzzle or two or some combat...






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Re: 2006 Mapping competition.
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Apr 14th at 10:18pm 2006


Sometimes I wonder if I type to hear my own keyboard clicking. So few seem to read a word I write.

@ SnowForSkate, how can you have "Playability" and "Flow" in a single area? I realize that for most of us, the general consensus seems to be "Area = tiny" but I beg to differ. My room/area/zone/geographical location is going to be rather large. On the order of "BIG" so lets not get all confused but even so, playability and flow aren't going to be a priority since it will "HAVE NO EXITS!"

@ Rumple. Thanx a bunch for covering for me. I appreciate it.

@ Blueballs. I already specified that I feel any HL game should be allowed. My reasoning is simple. Not everyone has bought HL2 yet and to exclude them on a simple one room contest seems awfully unfair.

@ Juim, same as post above. Not everyone lives in the USA to Britain. Some here either don't have HL2 yet, or cannot afford it. I have good friends here who I know do not have the machine to run it yet. I'd rather have them join us in an older game engine than not have them join at all.

@ EVERYONE... If you want to make a killbox, go right ahead. You know as well as I do that it will never win, but if it makes you happy, I am happy, and I imagine everyone else will be too. A killbox definitely has no exits and is contained within one zone. You may fail in originality, but you might just win with craftsmanship, if your box is made up of more than lifts and grating.

Again, let me stress. The idea is to be creative. You got to admit two things. Creating one area/zone/room/whatever cannot possibly take over one month and you sure as hell should be able to admit that creating one room and making it "Interesting" is one hell of a challenge.

People, lets have fun. and maybe produce something to be proud of.

[EDIT] If anyone posts in another thread about this contest, please post a link to it so we can keep tabs on its popularity elsewhere. I am interested to see who thinks that they are just to freaking good for this and who is humble enough to be interested. I have met some of the best mappers out there and IMO, none of them are so skilled as to be above it.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: 2006 Mapping competition.
Posted by reaper47 on Fri Apr 14th at 10:25pm 2006


Alright, no gameplay just the looks then! Alcoves are ok as long as they are obviously a part of the room and nothing that could stand for itself. No more questions.

I vote hell yes!




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Re: 2006 Mapping competition.
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Apr 14th at 10:37pm 2006


? quoting reaper47
No more questions.

Forever the optimist aren't you? <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_lol.gif">

I like that. Its a lost cause but I like the tenacity.

Bad thing is, we have only 12 votes and 3,200+ members. I figure we will have more.... confused posts soon.

I'd like to see... 40 or 50 votes at least, but... Thats even more optimistic than you.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: 2006 Mapping competition.
Posted by G.Ballblue on Sat Apr 15th at 4:28am 2006


Well I'm game for it orph <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> I'll be watching this thread



Breaking the laws of mapping since 2003 and doing a damn fine job at it



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Re: 2006 Mapping competition.
Posted by BlisTer on Sat Apr 15th at 12:35pm 2006


ok. but the question still stands: would the majority prefer custom models and/or custom textures, or shouldn't they be allowed as initially stated ?


These words are my diaries screaming out loud



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Re: 2006 Mapping competition.
Posted by reaper47 on Sat Apr 15th at 1:30pm 2006


? quote:
ok. but the question still stands: would the majority prefer custom models and/or custom textures, or shouldn't they be allowed as initially stated ?


Let's keep it as initially stated. Custom textures/models are a lot of work to do right and would delay the whole thing for weeks.




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Re: 2006 Mapping competition.
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Apr 15th at 6:48pm 2006


I would rather them not be allowed BUT...

I see no reason not to use them as long as:

1) They are already ready for use and will cause no delay.
2) You make everything available ( In a separate zip, assuming you wadincluded) for the users to have when the competition is complete.

This way, if Blister wins, and someone wants to use his area, they have the tools to do it with.

Hows that sound?

I assume everyone understood that the VMFs will be released once the competition is compete.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: 2006 Mapping competition.
Posted by ReNo on Sat Apr 15th at 7:28pm 2006


I didn't notice your mention about releasing the source files after the contest, but now its been drawn to my attention, I don't think it is something we should enforce. I generally don't have problems with giving people the source files to levels for learning purposes, but I don't like the idea of people having a selection of rooms to plug together into prefabricated levels. "Wild combinations" of other people's rooms does not a good map make.





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Re: 2006 Mapping competition.
Posted by BlisTer on Sat Apr 15th at 7:40pm 2006


i agree with reno. .vmf s can be given to people who request them ofcourse, but throwing them out in the open for everyone to grab, modify, and publish... mm rather not.


These words are my diaries screaming out loud



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Re: 2006 Mapping competition.
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Apr 15th at 8:01pm 2006


Well see, heres the problem. This contest is to teach basically. If one doesn't have the VMF, then all you can learn from is the bsp. If anyone was going to "Learn" from just downloading .bsp files, then they wouldn't need a competition of this nature. They could frag maps and learn while they do so.

You can hope that they won't just "Plonk" it into a map, but with decompilers, you couldn't stop them anyway. Only the unscrupulous would plonk anyway, and their maps would show it.

I agree that we cannot "Enforce" a vmf release, but who would want to keep a room/area/zone all to themselves anyway?

If someone doesn't want to release it, so be it but... It seriously retracts from the goal... Which is teaching/motivating.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: 2006 Mapping competition.
Posted by ReNo on Sat Apr 15th at 8:19pm 2006


I get the idea of motivating, but I don't think an open contest where you can look at peoples maps is the best way of teaching. Not everybody entering is going to be making things the most efficient/correct way - people looking at the source files could teach as many bad habits as good ones. Unless you meant it in the way of people entering can have the source files looked and and recieve constructive criticism on them.





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Re: 2006 Mapping competition.
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Apr 15th at 8:26pm 2006


I really don't know what I meant anymore. I swear, some of you have a gift for seeing negativity. It never occurred to me that there would be objections to releasing the VMF, or that anyone would come up with a damned good reason not to.

I look at it this way Duncan. Stupid people will be stupid even if you connect all the dots for them. So, if someone submits a stupidly made map, and someone else copies it, then they are no worse off because they are still stupid.

I am not a very gifted mapper, but I did learn a lot from studying RMF files with HL1. I sometimes copied things but mostly, I made everything from scratch.

I am a perfect example of a stupid person, who learned. If another stupid person cannot... Who loses? They do.

BSP files do not teach much, if anything.

But... If the authors do not want to release the VMF, so be it.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: 2006 Mapping competition.
Posted by Forceflow on Sat Apr 15th at 9:07pm 2006


Well, I'm in for it. Just give us more time than a month (I know, that seems enough for one room, but with all the detail ...)

Releasing the sources or not should be the user's choice. I wouldn't see any problem with it, because there are decompilers anyway. (I tested some out of curiosity, and - sadly enough if they are used wrongly - they are pretty good.)
If someone is determined enough to copy parts of your map, it will happen, eventually.



:: Forceflow.be :: Nuclear Dawn developer



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Re: 2006 Mapping competition.
Posted by Captain P on Sat Apr 15th at 9:09pm 2006


Just don't enforce it. It's a good idea otherwise, and I would do it - if I enter of course. image

Mudanchee has just a higher priority, but yeah, I'm planning to release it's source (actually several stages of the map) alongside with an article. I just have to get it done though...

Oh, and .bsp's teach a lot - to the carefull eye. Not as much technical stuff perhaps, but they're great resources when it comes down to design things. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">






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Re: 2006 Mapping competition.
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Apr 15th at 9:14pm 2006


I am not seriously opposed to people retaining their goods but.. It just seems a shame to restrict a learning adventure, because you fear theft.

As I said, if only a bsp were required to teach, people could do that by playing online.

@ForceFlow... How about a general consensus, once its determined we will even have a competition?

A month seems fair, but so does two or three. As long as it has a respectable deadline. No 1/2 year crap...

And room = anything you want it to be as long as it has no exits.

I can assure you that if I make mine the way I want to, and thats a big if, it will be big...very big.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: 2006 Mapping competition.
Posted by Loco on Sat Apr 15th at 9:48pm 2006


In terms of dates for the competition, the exam season for me kicks off late May - end of June, and although I've got a month to go I need to be revising. Is anyone else in the same situation? The exam season in the UK is enormous...






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