What is natural behaviour? Presumably it is the behaviour of animals (whereas humans, being more sophisticated, can do "unnatural" things).

Many species of animals are well-documented to behave homosexually. Often it's used as a form of status determination: the dominant animal does the buttf*cking, whereas the submissive gets buttf*cked. Homosexual behaviour is also observed in captive animals where females are absent. Animals have even been known to mate with their food bowls.

Note that masturbation is similarly "natural" in many species.

The rest of your post is irrelevant, not to mention insularly neo-conservative. You cannot dismiss the importance of a topic by comparing it to world hunger.

Here's a thought: if most of the heterosexual population were suddenly "struck gay", and became homosexual, then the world's population would decline. Once the population had reduced to, say, less than a billion, we wouldn't have any environmental problems any more

I can see the posters already:

"Save the world -- bugger a man today!"

"Bend over for the environment."

(And yes, I know that's silly. But it does make you wonder about "natural".)

Well I've seen pedophilia and necrophilia in nature too, so is it natural? And if we can't compare ourselves to animals, who use animals as justification for what we can or can't do?

Personally, I just think that people want to do whatever they want to do and they will always do it, ANd search until they have a way to justify it, no matter what. I also think that people will defend other people for doing whatever they want, because if they admit that another person is wrong, they might have to admit that they are. Otherwise, why would such straight people even care how homosexuals are treated, as long as it doesn't interfere with their OWN hedonism?

I agree, minus the pins methinks.

I have but one comment. Mankind is born with a plethora of things most can be termed "Good" and "Bad"

I have heard the tired argument about how Homosexuals have no choice in the matter. They are "born" the way they are. I won't even add the sigh in this post, but be aware that it is present while you are reading these words.

Homosexuals may, or may not have a choice in being born the way they are, but they do have a choice whether to "ACT" upon those urges. It is commonly thought that pedophilia, alcoholism,kleptomania, and a whole s**t load of other ailments are born traits. This may or may not be true, but the real truth of the matter is, as responsible adults, you ARE responsible if you do not reign in the urges of these diseases.

I do not want to hear the argument that you cannot compare an illegal action to one that is not illegal because the terms do not apply in this conversation. Kleptomania,alcoholism,homosexuality and all the rest of the supposed "Born" traits are wrong and should not be acted upon... Thats the bottom line of it.

Myself, I do not believe in the born theory. I firmly, and whole heartedly believe that all these actions.. ALL OF THEM, are learned traits. You learn to steal, you learn to burn down buildings, you learn to be gay, you learn them all.

Education and consequences for acting upon them will be the only real deterrent. If no one ever has to pay the piper, then no harm is done, right?

Society has deemed some of these things more wrong than others so, not all of them are considered "Criminal actions" any longer. If you feel that this is basically true, or you feel that this is because they are not all criminal actions, then YOU are the problem more so than the people doing the things we discuss.

anyway, those pins are looking pretty nifty about now... Can I borrow a few from you Master Gwil? And, a bit of mouthwash because topics like this always leave a bad taste in my mouth.