Re: Begun mapping for Source
Posted by Toast King on Tue Apr 25th at 5:44pm 2006
Ive started mapping for source, and so far im not terribly impressed. But anyway, Im making a SP mod, and ive done the whole create your mod thing and ive done 1 map so far. Everything looking fine. But 3 questions:
a: How do I make chapters? Like in HL2 (Where you select 'em)
b: There is a folder called 'soundcache' being created in my maps folder, and it is 20 megs big! What is this! I cant have it, makes the download WAY to large.
c: Why does it create a source folder thingy in my c drive, where it is about 40 megs big? And has all the source code and stuff. WHat is it for.
More questions coming up, and so far (Even though im very familier with HL1 mapping) im quite intimidated. Please make me not feel alone
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Re: Begun mapping for Source
Posted by reaper47 on Tue Apr 25th at 6:25pm 2006
I never did the "create a mod thing" so I don't know if it creates some of the folders and files you described.
The soundcache, to my knowledge, doesn't have to be sent with the map files. It's created more or less automatically. At least you don't have to send it with your bsp file when distributing a map. Again this could have something to do with the "create mod" feature that probably works a bit different then normal mapping. So... forget what I said? That's probably my best tip
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Re: Begun mapping for Source
Posted by ReNo on Tue Apr 25th at 6:27pm 2006
Editing questions should be kept in the editing forum please, and don't post them all in one thread as the system is designed to allow for one topic per thread.

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Re: Begun mapping for Source
Posted by Captain P on Tue Apr 25th at 8:31pm 2006
I'm with ReNo: just ask questions in the appropriate place next time.
Anyway:
A. In your mods cfg folder, place a chapterNNN.cfg file for each chapter, where NNN ranges from 1 to the amount of chapters your mod has. Each file should contain the console command to load the associated map (e.g. 'map mapname'). Then, in your materialsVguichapters folder, place chapterNNN.vmt and .vtf files for the images. These should be 256x128 as far as I can tell, but only a part of it will be used. Check the Valve ones for reference.
B. Just delete it, you probably don't need it (and if you do, you'll notice soon enough after letting someone playtest). Backing it up could be handy though, just in case.
C. Creating a mod assumes you're actually creating a mod. Not a mappack only. But if your mod doesn't need custom code, feel free to clean up the folders containing source-code.
I would strongly advise you to download some Source mods and check their folders. There's just a few essentials required to make a mod visible to Steam and you can find it all out by simply looking at how others did it and occasionally the Valve wiki contains some usefull info.

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Re: Begun mapping for Source
Posted by Pvt.Scythe on Tue Apr 25th at 8:46pm 2006
I think Toast King is trying to get a more general and open approach
for this topic than the editing questions forum allows. Personally I'm
very intimidated with HL2 editing also. I did a small map, but couldn't
get the skybox working so I scrapped it all and stopped mapping for a
while. I felt like a newborn thrown out of a boat in a snarkpool...

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Re: Begun mapping for Source
Posted by Captain P on Tue Apr 25th at 9:06pm 2006
Personally, I'm loosing touch with mapping, might be because of HL2 (mainly the demand for custom stuff, which is taking more time than expected and finally, keeps me from what I feel is actually mapping), might be because I'm getting older and I'm loosing interest in certain types of games, might be because I'm getting more and more interested in creating games by myself...
Technically, Source doesn't really intimidate me. Using other peoples work as examples, it's often not too hard to find out about stuff. It's mostly the high cost of custom stuff (which I really want to use...) that's starting to put me off, I think.
Which is one of the reasons I'm creating a 2D game rather than a 3D game - it's simpler to set up the rendering and several aspects of the game-code, which leaves me more room to focus on actual game-code, game-design and all.
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Re: Begun mapping for Source
Posted by reaper47 on Tue Apr 25th at 9:31pm 2006
? quote:
Personally, I'm loosing touch with mapping, might be because of HL2 (mainly the demand for custom stuff, which is taking more time than expected and finally, keeps me from what I feel is actually mapping)[/img]
I know what you mean. Mapping is getting more and more an interdisciplinary effort which requires custom models, textures with complex shaders ect. I don't really see the mapping scene slowing down but I feel much more like playing the same all over again with many maps because the props, which make a big part of the architecture and feel of the map, are always the same.

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Re: Begun mapping for Source
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Apr 25th at 9:48pm 2006
I am so hoping that this competition sparks some new ideas. Snarkpit needs more map discussions. Its gotten to where the homo's get more attention than mapping does. 
I have made a decision that even if I fail to make the map I desire, I am still going to enter it. If for no other reason than to show people what not to do.
Since all of my maps are borderline s**t anyway, damned few will even notice another one.

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Re: Begun mapping for Source
Posted by $loth on Wed Apr 26th at 2:34pm 2006
I like the props, personally I think whilst they are seen as quite lazy, they're better than anything a brush can make.

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Re: Begun mapping for Source
Posted by Captain P on Wed Apr 26th at 2:43pm 2006
I like props greatly, too. Those aren't really the problem for me (though after 10 or so, it does start to detract from mapping, but that put aside), it's the high quality textures I just can't keep up with without investing a great deal of time...
Well, perhaps for the competition, a bare-boned, gameplay-focussed map? That's something that doesn't demand time as much as art does...

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Re: Begun mapping for Source
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Apr 26th at 10:13pm 2006
I like props but dislike their most common use.
An author should build his maps, and add the props to finish it off but most mappers today make the map, fit the props. No one wants to invest the time it takes to produce a map that could stand on its own without the props.
I also got really tired of the tossable objects. I had DSL and a massive PC and still got slide shows on occasion from the things being hurled about.
Anyway, I am tired of boxes with props inside them.

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Re: Begun mapping for Source
Posted by Pvt.Scythe on Thu Apr 27th at 6:13am 2006
I find the props a good tool for making architechture that would
otherwise be extremely slow or impossible to make by normal means. This
of course brings out the problem of getting the kind of props you need.
Modeling skills could help, but not everyone is willing to venture that
path. Perhaps I'll give it another try once the summer holidays start.

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Re: Begun mapping for Source
Posted by Toast King on Thu Apr 27th at 9:31am 2006
I dont think I will ever get into modeling, simply because mapping is my art and skill.

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Re: Begun mapping for Source
Posted by Orpheus on Thu Apr 27th at 12:08pm 2006
? quoting Toast King
I dont think I will ever get into modeling, simply because mapping is my art and skill.
We've seen your mapping. You aren't so far ahead that modeling is out of the question.
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Re: Begun mapping for Source
Posted by Pvt.Scythe on Thu Apr 27th at 2:36pm 2006
Toast King - They are very similiar. Modeling is just a bit harder and slower.

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Re: Begun mapping for Source
Posted by Toast King on Fri Apr 28th at 9:28am 2006
Yeah, I might attemp modeling anyway, because it seems usefull, but is the editor free?
Btw, I have become used to source mapping now, pretty much the same as the old HL1 mapping. But the question lies: What should I map? SP maps, Or HL2DM or CSS? I dont really wanna map HL2DM cause I dont have bots and noone joins my server =[

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Re: Begun mapping for Source
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Apr 28th at 12:05pm 2006
? quoting Toast King
I dont really wanna map HL2DM cause I dont have bots and noone joins my server =[
Yeah, that would do it for me.. 
Dude, just map. The rest will take care of itself. 90% of the best we have here, couldn't give a rats ass if their maps ever got played. Well, its always a concern, but not one sufficient to warrant losing sleep over.
The other 10% who care what the players think? They create s**t maps... I can point you to some examples. Now ask yourself, do you want to be happy and make maps, or do you want us to include you with those 10%?
Just map... We'll let you know how you're doing.

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Re: Begun mapping for Source
Posted by Toast King on Fri Apr 28th at 5:00pm 2006
Yeah, maps that are meant to be played are crap aim and fy maps, and boy, I NEVER want to EVER be known to have created a map of such crap genre. I think I will map HL2DM, even if I just admire it myself, still enjoyable.

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Re: Begun mapping for Source
Posted by ReNo on Fri Apr 28th at 6:26pm 2006
If you want to try modelling, there are several free or cheap options available to you. Softimage XSI Mod Tool is a free version of Softimage XSI, and you can use it to create Source engine content like props and characters. It is however a fairly complex program and might be a bit daunting. Milkshape is a shareware program that costs $20 or something after the first 30 days, which are free to test it out. It's not as powerful as XSI, and I wouldn't recommend trying to make anything hugely complex in it, but its easy to pick up and play around with and can be used to make props for Source. The other common option is to use Blender, which is a free modelling program. I've no experience with Blender so can't really comment on it, but I know some people use it to create Source engine content so it must be doable
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Softimage XSI Mod Tool - http://www.fileshack.com/file.x?fid=6024
Milkshape - http://www.swissquake.ch/chumbalum-soft

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