A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese
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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese
Posted by Andrei on Fri Jan 26th at 8:48pm 2007


? quote:
The fact remains that we have no structural engineers to postulate our arguments with.


Maybe we do. My dad is a structural engineer, albeit he doesn't have any experience when it comes to skyscrapers.




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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Jan 26th at 9:00pm 2007


? quoting Andrei

? quote:
The fact remains that we have no structural engineers to postulate our arguments with.



Maybe we do. My dad is a structural engineer, albeit he doesn't have any experience when it comes to skyscrapers.

And?

Have you asked his views? I bet they would be unbiased, even if his experience isn't with the giant buildings.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese
Posted by reaper47 on Fri Jan 26th at 9:03pm 2007


Alright you did it. I did watch Loose Change. And it gave me shivers.

I don't know what I can say about it. It's just a collection of information never revealed or confirmed. I can only listen to it.






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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Jan 26th at 9:19pm 2007


*sighs*

I couldn't finish. The kid just wouldn't shut up.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese
Posted by reaper47 on Fri Jan 26th at 9:45pm 2007


About 20% of this video really made sense, in an eerie way.

Maybe the best argument is that the majority of people (including me) would prefer living in a world in which Islamic terrorists organize attacks from their caves rather than a world of powerful politicians going crazy beyond the kind of craziness we got used to. I don't want to believe this, even if it was true.






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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese
Posted by Andrei on Fri Jan 26th at 10:01pm 2007


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Have you asked his views? I bet they would be unbiased, even if his experience isn't with the giant buildings.


Long story short, he doesn't buy into this 9-11 conspiracy thing. He said that the impact and the shock it sent through the entire building, the fact that the exposion further damaged the structure and the combined weights of the top part of the building and the plane itself should have been more than enough to bring down the building. Sorry if it's not the in-depth analysis full of numbers and diagrams you we're (probably) hoping for, but I was too tired to insist.
Still, a little more plausible that Bush having 3 planes fly into the WTC and the Pentagon.

As for the plane flying into Empire state argument. IIRC the building was hit in the late forties by a B-25 bomber that got lost in the fog. The building was relatively new then, and you know, even the best-maintained buildings lose some structural resistance in time, and a B-25 is smaller than a 777 (or whatever they flew into the towers) and doesn't fly as fast. Less speed, less impact surface, less fuel... Plus the plane was nearly out of fuel, so not much of an explosion.




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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese
Posted by RedWood on Sat Jan 27th at 5:35am 2007


? quote:
...He doesn't have any particular dislikes for ford...



? quote:
...If your Pop doesn't know, then he should be quiet about Fords too...




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...Wouldn't the floors stack up as they fell, pancaking down upon one another and then slowing as more and more stacked up?...


I thought that was exactly what happened. Am i wrong?




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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese
Posted by Cassius on Sun Jan 28th at 8:15am 2007


OH HO HO AMERRRICANS SO UNCULTURED YES

PASS ME A SPOT OF TEA JEEVES OH YES AMMMMERICANS SO UNCULTURED JEEVES TEA PLEASE JEEVES TALLY HO





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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese
Posted by French Toast on Sun Jan 28th at 5:21pm 2007


At least it's funnier than most comedy coming out of America these days.

Fart boobs penis. Hah, I'm so funny!




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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese
Posted by Nickelplate on Mon Jan 29th at 3:32pm 2007


man, I have a ford Bronco with 586,900 miles on it currently. Never had any real troubles with it. Over half a million miles on this ford...

other people in my family have other over-200,000 mile ford cars... we love 'em!

and it's always the dang Mopars that have freakin special tools required!




I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com



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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese
Posted by Bewbies on Mon Jan 29th at 5:53pm 2007


In my line of work, I've been on the site of structure fires multiple times.. Can't call myself an expert, but I've had the pleasure of meeting the resident investigators and engineers. In a long, drawn-out talk about 9/11 with one of the engineers, I had my eyes opened to the ordeal from their standpoint. It was kind of awkward, because he sorta cried when talking about the towers falling.. haha but anyway, for you people wearing tinfoil-hats:

  • These iron beams are what held up what was once the tallest skyscraper in the U.S.. Considering iron will begin losing it's supporting strength at 30% of the actual melting point, I'm surprised it took so long for the towers to fall. Keep in mind how massive this building was. That's a whole lot of weight for less-than-perfect supporting strength.
  • The floors that were struck by the plane were already weakened by the initial concussion and actual breaking of supports. Again, people forget how massive the plane was. This was just a skyscraper, not a mass of iron. Remember when the towers were falling? How much iron did you see? But anyway..
  • It's the nature of structural engeering to have floors not only support themselves, but support the floors above them. When a floor stops supporting itself, the floor below it takes the weight. The key is keeping weight distribution vertical. Iron supports would sooner break at the seams than buckle, under circumstances that only involved weight.. which is why such long segments of metal are used, rather than piecing together many small ones. Once weakened, though, the supports will buckle, shifting the weight distribution away from vertical, into the point of weakness.
  • Once a floor gives out, its weight is shifted down to the floor below it.. with inertia applied. The vertical weight distribution is flushed down the drain, and the floors fall ontop of each other. Each floor, the weight increases, obliterating anything in its path like falling dominos. This is plainly seen as the towers are falling - from the top down.

When we see skyscrapers, we're tempted to think that the monstrous things are completely stable hunks of iron.. they're not. They're a miracle of engeering, being held together with extremely delicate architecture. We want to cite buildings that have caught fire and not burned down? Sure. Have at it. Keep in mind some more things:

  • Buildings that catch fire do burn down. If there are buildings that don't, woohoo! Isn't that nice. I suppose I should go smoke cigarettes because there are people that have lived with smoking for over 100 years. The whole lung cancer thing is just a conspiracy to run big tobacco out of business.
  • Buildings made of stone and wood don't burn the same way as a building made of iron. Brick/stone houses will burn internally, along with their roofs.. They do come down a lot of the time, but have a better track record. Most small buildings, framed in wood, burn just like you'd imagine - through and through. Wooden supports burn, break, entire walls fall over. This is a given, though. Single-story buildings built with iron will burn, leaving an iron skeleton.. Though I've only seen that once. Why build a single-story home out of iron? Anyway, Buildings burn down. Especially those hit with jetfuel-filled passenger airplanes.

Lastly, if you honestly consider the government had anything to do with it, you've got some wires crossed. Could they orchestrate what would be considered the greatest hoax and conspiracy of all time, and not an exit strategy for Iraq? Oh.. Iraq is just another conspiracy. To.. umm.. make people lose faith in our administration? To lose the house and senate to the democrats? Makes sense.

[edit]Because my wall of text didn't make the post big enough:[/edit]




the players tried to take the field
the marching band refused to yield



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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese
Posted by fishy on Mon Jan 29th at 7:01pm 2007


conspiracy about 9/11 aside, the way that the US people were duped into paying income tax, and the way the money is spent, is outrageous. The way that state courts refuse to accept supreme court rulings, and dismiss the constitution is even more outrageous.

Did you know that the federal reserve isn't actually owned by the people of america, or even the government? It used to be, but it was given away to a cartel of un-named bankers back about the 1920's, which was also around the time that Woodrow Wilson claimed that some ammendment (13th, i think) had given him new tax raising powers. The supreme court ruled a few years later that he'd been talking rubbish, but by then everyone was paying, and were affraid to stop. Now the IRS make sure people stay affraid, and the money they collect just about covers the interest that gets paid on loans that the government take from the federal bank.(the one they gave away)

If this all sounds too crazy to be true, then maybe that's what it is. I'm sure that anyone who's interested will be able to find out. I'm not that interested, as I don't pay US taxes, and I'm happy to believe that the US system is corrupted to the core. No reflection on the people, though. It's the same in most countries.




i eat paint



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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese
Posted by DocRock on Mon Jan 29th at 8:09pm 2007


Does this look like a collapse or an explosion?




Condemnation without Investigation is the Highest Form of Ignorance!



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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese
Posted by Bewbies on Mon Jan 29th at 8:30pm 2007


that looks like a floor falling ontop of the floor below it. see how the debris is flying out and downward? if it were an explosion, it'd be going out and up more than anything else. i see plumes of dust shooting up, but that's just physics at work. dust -> shooting up. debris -> shooting down.

looks like a collapse.




the players tried to take the field
the marching band refused to yield



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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese
Posted by reaper47 on Mon Jan 29th at 8:34pm 2007


It looks like one of the biggest buildings in the world collapses. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif">

The smoke-puffs coming out a few floors underneath the falling parts could be anything. Windows could break and release a dust cloud caused by the pressure... other things we're completely forgetting... I bet a collapsing skyscraper is among the most difficult to simulate things on earth. It?s no real surprise scientists have trouble explaining the events scientifically. There are too many variables.

I?m much more interested in seeing the videotapes from the Pentagon hit. Where are they?






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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese
Posted by RedWood on Mon Jan 29th at 8:50pm 2007


? quote:
...and I'm happy to believe that the US system is corrupted to the core. No reflection on the people, though. It's the same in most countries.

Everything i believe in about this country revolves around those two statements.

And it also looks like a collapse to me.




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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese
Posted by DocRock on Mon Jan 29th at 8:56pm 2007


? quoting reaper47
I?m much more interested in seeing the videotapes from the Pentagon hit. Where are they?

Interesting thought. If there is nothing for us to worry about, then why don't they release the tapes? What are they wanting to hide?

There are alot of interesting thoughts, and you don't need to wear a tinfoil hat to wonder about them, you only need to be a normal human being who ponders things and questions them. To label someone 'someone who wears a tinfoil hat' simply because they have questions about the truth of 9/11 is childish.

Like I said in an earlier post, I can't help to wonder why people get so tired of talking about 9/11 when so many questions, still to this day, remain unanswered - or hidden from us - like the Pentagon tapes.

What are they afraid of? Why do they hide?

In the following video (in clip 2), where are the fires that melted the steel, or bent the steel enough to make the building collapse upon itself?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_gdCrmbrIg




Condemnation without Investigation is the Highest Form of Ignorance!



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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese
Posted by Pvt.Scythe on Mon Jan 29th at 9:34pm 2007


http://www.shoutfile.com/v/gSfSsCpR/Why_People_Believe_Americans_Are_Stupid

I got this link from a female friend of mine and it made me think.



''Everyone wades in s**t until they're competent enough to walk on it. Jesus style.''
Dystopia - Empires



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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese
Posted by reaper47 on Mon Jan 29th at 9:35pm 2007


It obviously didn't burn the whole time and everywhere. A huge part of the walls and supports where destroyed the second the plane hit. This creates enough instability for the 30(?) floors above it, if you ask me. There doesn't have to be an open fire for some important steel beams to be hot also. The tower started collapsing exactly where the plane hit. How should they have planned this beforehand?

Too many variables to conclude there were explosives. Also the sounds... they could come from 300 meter steel and whatnot shaking or moving in any way. It doesn't have to be C4.






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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese
Posted by Andrei on Mon Jan 29th at 9:40pm 2007


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where are the fires that melted the steel


There, in clip 2, you can even see what appears to be glowing red steel, somewhere on the left, in the smoke.





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