zomg finally back!
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Re: zomg finally back!
Posted by Gorbachev on Sat Mar 24th at 7:42pm 2007


Your eye can see the refresh rates easily if you just focus. I can walk into a computer lab and pretty much instantly see which monitors are running 60Hz and which are running higher. Same with frames for games, I could argue for hours, but anyone who says 24 or 30 frames is the most anyone can see doesn't know what they're talking about.



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Re: zomg finally back!
Posted by reaper47 on Sat Mar 24th at 9:38pm 2007


You don't really see the frames, you see the black, vertically moving beam flashing between the frames. That's why a white background is more unpleasant than a black one on 60Hz CRTs.

I think what you see on 60Hz monitors is mostly interference caused by the movement. We don't see 60 individual frames but instead 2 or 3 frames at once which can end in odd pictures that animate into a jittery, slower moving beam.

What's missing is motion blur. LCDs don't have the black beams of CRTs (which come from the Cathode Rays shooting at the Tube [C R T]), frames fade into each other more fluently, thus no strobes.






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Re: zomg finally back!
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Mar 24th at 9:47pm 2007


What I find is that if I have to look at a monitor that is set to 60, and its not my machine, for which I won't alter the settings, that if I shut the overhead light off it helps.

Seems that the incandescent light strobes at nearly the same speed, but at a different time and causes my screen to strobe out of sync and makes my head hurt.

Now, this might just be pure bulls**t, and more of a placebo effect but it helps me.

At home, my crt is set to 85.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: zomg finally back!
Posted by wil5on on Sun Mar 25th at 2:53am 2007


It could be the light strobing at 50Hz, thats the frequency of mains power usually. Its probably more to do with having darker surroundings though.

Yes, many people can notice a 60Hz flicker, but you can't perceive motion normally at that speed. Saying the human eye/brain can't see above 24-30 fps is just a generalisation of a complex system which doesnt really map perfectly to monitor refresh rates.

A bad LCD is inferior to a good CRT. There are inherent differences in both, but LCDs, I would expect, are better on your eyes. They definitely don't have the problem of colours fading with age that CRTs do, and of course, solve the 60Hz headache.




"If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?"
- My yr11 Economics teacher



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Re: zomg finally back!
Posted by Stadric on Sun Mar 25th at 3:59am 2007


I'm looking at (quite literally) a 75Hz LCD monitor. I've never had a headache or eye-strain with it before (unless I was doing a gaming marathon, or with eyes that had been broken some other way).
I remember when I first got an LCD monitor, I got one that was bigger than my current one, but when I played games in it, the refresh rate was incredibly low, and it hurt my eyes. That one had a 24ms (or some such) refresh rate in its specs, this one has 12ms.
So what's the difference between Hz and the refresh rate in a monitor's specs?
1 second/75Hz = 0.013333333333333333 ~ 12ms?



Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying



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Re: zomg finally back!
Posted by rs6 on Sun Mar 25th at 4:09am 2007


I can't stand 60hz, and can easily tell when a monitor is running below 70hz. I enjoy running my monitor at 72hz for some reason.



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Re: zomg finally back!
Posted by Naklajat on Sun Mar 25th at 5:37am 2007


72Hz is right about the speed most people's eyes work at.

? quote:
anyone who says 24 or 30 frames is the most anyone can see doesn't know what they're talking about.

24 is about where it your brain registers the image as fluid motion, at least in passive media like movies and TV. Higher frame rates still look better and smoother, but the more frames you add the more space you need to store the video. For games (especially when you have direct control of your view) you can notice a difference well above 72 fps and well above the refresh rate of your monitor, but that's got more to do with the game updating faster and making your mouse movements feel smoother.



=o



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Re: zomg finally back!
Posted by omegaslayer on Sun Mar 25th at 5:39am 2007


? quote:

24 is about where it your brain registers the image as fluid motion, at least in passive media like movies and TV. Higher frame rates still look better and smoother, but the more frames you add the more space you need to store the video. For games (especially when you have direct control of your view) you can notice a difference well above 72 fps and well above the refresh rate of your monitor, but that's got more to do with the game updating faster and making your mouse movements feel smoother.

I've always wondered about this.






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Re: zomg finally back!
Posted by wil5on on Sun Mar 25th at 12:30pm 2007


? quoting Stadric
I'm looking at (quite literally) a 75Hz LCD monitor. I've never had a headache or eye-strain with it before (unless I was doing a gaming marathon, or with eyes that had been broken some other way).
I remember when I first got an LCD monitor, I got one that was bigger than my current one, but when I played games in it, the refresh rate was incredibly low, and it hurt my eyes. That one had a 24ms (or some such) refresh rate in its specs, this one has 12ms.
So what's the difference between Hz and the refresh rate in a monitor's specs?
1 second/75Hz = 0.013333333333333333 ~ 12ms?

Refresh rate applies to CRT monitors and is measured in Hz. Response time applies to LCD monitors and is measured in ms.

The refresh rate of a CRT monitor is how many times per second the electron beam passes over the screen to draw an image on it. So for a CRT at 60Hz, you have every pixel on the screen coming on, fading out gradually until its refreshed 1/60th of a second later. This is why you get the annoying flicker. Faster refresh rates cause it to all blur together and cause you fewer problems.

The response time of an LCD monitor is how long it takes a pixel, on average, to switch between fully black and fully white. Of course this is only a rough measurement, since response time does matter on the position and colour (red, green or blue) of the specific pixel measured, the colour gradient you move through, etc. So the two concepts cant be compared directly against each other. By your calculation there, a 12ms monitor would barely keep up with a 75Hz black/white strobing effect. This can be noticeable in games, if your view moves quickly across a sharp colour gradient. You can even see it here, with the white on black, if you scroll the page. The time taken for black pixels to switch to white and vice versa causes image ghosting.




"If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?"
- My yr11 Economics teacher



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Re: zomg finally back!
Posted by Dark|Killer on Sun Mar 25th at 1:15pm 2007


I think a new thread regarding the " Refresh Rate" Would be a better idea, I have learned new stuff from reading this post, but I wouldn't have read that if I didn't open any topic to read, if this was in a different thread, it would be very useful ...

Just a suggestion ^^

Oh and btw, different Refresh Rates from 60Hz-72Hz has different sharpness or anything related ?? Mine was 60Hz for some reason, I boosted it up to 72Hz as I have seen its recommended by some guys here...What am I supposed to expect to be different ???

Thanks for the help <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

ZnZ



.::Dark|Masta::. - One name. One legend.



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Re: zomg finally back!
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Mar 25th at 1:32pm 2007


? quoting Dark|Killer
I think a new thread regarding the " Refresh Rate" Would be a better idea,

Has. Was informative. Dunno what it was called though so good luck.

Go search it out.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: zomg finally back!
Posted by Junkyard God on Sun Mar 25th at 5:47pm 2007


? quote:
I dunno what my brain does


Hehehe, chuckled at hearing that from you <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> (sorry hehe)



Hell, is an half-filled auditorium




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