Snarkpit Forum Index » General Banter » What do you do when you aren't here?
What do you do when you aren't here?
« previous page 1
2
Post Reply
Quote
 Re: What do you do when you aren't here?
Posted by Pvt.Scythe on Sun Apr 1st at 8:12am 2007

School and modeling. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif"> So it's sort of 1 and 4 together, but since I rarely have time for modeling anymore, I blame School.

I kind of agree with Fishy on his eating metaphore(don't know how to spell it.<img src=" SRC="images/smiles/sad.gif"> ). The problem at first with Source mapping and me was that I had dial-up connection with pay per minute taxing, so I couldn't get Source SDK. Later on I got Source SDK and started learning and came to a realization that you need to know how to model to get the really good stuff done, so I ventured down that path next. Then I came back to the Hammer and blew several fuses over all the bugs that plagued it(mainly constantly inverting displacement textures, at one point the unability of selecting anything from 3D view and the graphics bugs with models in dx9 mode(fixed since then)). I definitely haven't given up on mapping, I'm just learning the fine art of modeling first before I venture back in to the valley of darkness. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">

Dystopia, Empires and PVK II have gotten my attention so who knows what future will bring...



''Everyone wades in s**t until they're competent enough to walk on it. Jesus style.''
Dystopia - Empires



Quote
 Re: What do you do when you aren't here?
Posted by reaper47 on Sun Apr 1st at 12:58pm 2007

Hmmm... I can't loose the feeling that many (especially Snarkpitters) are starting to take mapping way too seriously.

I think a lot of people are "scared" of the new Hammer. All the features, high-res stuff, prop-dependence, "Lost Coast" screenshots ect.

At least I know this feeling myself. When I think of the engine's capabilities and the working-effort it seems nearly impossible. Then, one evening, after not having mapped for months, I load up Hammer and try out a map I wanted to do for some time and it works and it's fun.

I think that many unlearned to think of mapping as a "hobby".

The Source engine isn't 5 times the work, it's maybe 20% more. Or 50%. If you spend an hour here and an hour there, even with weeks of doing nothing, you can finish a map to quality. You don't have to sacrifice every minute of free time. You don't have to sacrifice anything. And if it takes a year to finish a map so be it. It's OK.

I recently found this map dm_derelict by Jacfu. It popped out of nowhere, but looking at the map I realized that there's an approach to mapping that is missing from the Source scene. The map doesn't have any gimmicks, it's pretty small in size, yet it brought back some good memories from the time when mapping was a hobby and every new map had something interesting to offer. I wish more mappers tried simpler approaches like this.

All I see are either monumental or hyper-realistic maps that try to bring the Source engine to its limits (*cough* *cough*) or killboxes. Nothing that links (wannabe-)pro mappers with the huge crowd of beginners. Maybe trying smaller and less exotic maps while focusing on gameplay and interesting layouts would be more rewarding and could bring back some of those frustrated with mapping.


But that's all the optimism I have left. Beat that, and I'm out. I still enjoy mapping here and there. It's an interesting and fun way of playing with technology, learning how interactivity and CG graphics work. I'll continue for now.

I have high hopes for the Team Fortresses (TF2 and FF). Maybe, if they fail to bring back some of the creativity of the good old times, I'll retire. Until then, I'll keep my enthusiasm.


Why snark works.



Quote
 Re: What do you do when you aren't here?
Posted by Gwil on Sun Apr 1st at 1:03pm 2007

No offence reaper, but

? quote:
I can't loose the feeling that many (especially Snarkpitters) are starting to take mapping way too seriously.


Re-read your post and see that you're pretty much the main culprit here...? :P




Quote
 Re: What do you do when you aren't here?
Posted by reaper47 on Sun Apr 1st at 1:38pm 2007

Yea, you got me. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/heee.gif"> I thought I'd try and start to bring in some slightly more optimistic arguments but as soon as you try to it starts to sound desperate. *sigh*

But as for the kind of seriousness I was referring too: I meant the qualities of the golden ages.

I think many wouldn't even bother starting a new map if they didn't know it would turn out to be super-fine and a Source-enhanced version of the HL1 perfection. Which probably won't happen. That's what I meant with seriously. You can try simple stuff with style. It's like stopping to skateboard because you've seen a Tony Hawk video.

Time isn't the only issue, I believe. I think it's just a way of saying "I don't bother". For those that really believe time is all that is holding them up, I think there's a lot of things to do with mapping. But those are probably a minority.

I dunno, I give up.

Anyone up for a discussion about religion or gay rights?


Why snark works.



Quote
 Re: What do you do when you aren't here?
Posted by Riven on Sun Apr 1st at 2:58pm 2007

Haha, please, no...

I think you're right for the most part. Mapping is a hobby that is creative-intensive, and it takes a lot of people a lot of time to feel the right vibe before diving head-first into an idea.

It might be just me, but it seems that right about this time as I'm posting this, the mapping community here as I know it is rather apathetic. Sure we'll jump on a topic as soon as it's posted, but the problem lies: There are not a lot of topics to post about. Or none that are design/ mapping related. (Don't criticize me too harshly for that last comment).

Perhaps it's just that calm before the storm when HL2: EP2, Portal, and TF2 will all be released and spark new enthusiasm for the source engine.

Anyhow, my time is spent either at school and doing homework, friends a.k.a. a life, "dreaming" about mapping, or reading these forums instead. I'll admit that my main problem is lack of motivation, but I think I'm overwhelmed like reaper47 said with monumental projects that I'm trying to work on. So it takes me that much more to get enthusiastic enough to begin, because it has to be perfect (for me). But I don't think my perceived view of the attitudes here is helping that enthusiasm.




Blog: www.playingarchitecture.net
LinkedIn: Eric Lancon
Twitter:@Riven202



Quote
 Re: What do you do when you aren't here?
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Apr 1st at 3:08pm 2007

I am leaning the other way, at least in part.

One can map and create exactly the same theme/layout/style of maps that succeeded with HL1 with the HL2 engine. The problem is, the weaponry has altered to the point where maps of that type simply won't work.

I don't really think we all are intimidated by the new engine. I think we are chagrined to the point of not caring anymore because of its shortfalls and worse its constant need of a patch to fix an error.

My honest belief is that we could create maps without the new perks that the engine possesses, without failing if only the items would assist us in doing so.

anyway, thats by belief.





The best things in life, aren't things.



Quote
 Re: What do you do when you aren't here?
Posted by Forceflow on Sun Apr 1st at 6:06pm 2007

University, Computer Sciences.

I'm a bit busy.


:: Forceflow.be :: Nuclear Dawn developer



Quote
 Re: What do you do when you aren't here?
Posted by reaper47 on Sun Apr 1st at 6:19pm 2007

Yea, I mean all those arguments are overwhelming. You're absolutely right, no doubt.

It's just a bit sad to see mapping going this way, more and more outgrowing the capabilities of the average mapper. I'll stick to it as long as there's some life left to the community.


Why snark works.



Quote
 Re: What do you do when you aren't here?
Posted by Kasperg_JM on Sun Apr 1st at 11:03pm 2007

I voted n?1 because Architecture School can be a pain in the *** sometimes, but honestly I think it's not an excuse. If you really like mapping, you can find more than enough time to do so. Think about the time you spend surfing the net, reading and writing in forums, watching TV, going to the movies etc.
The main problem for most people is just lack of motivation, not lack of time. I'm about to abandon mapping as a hobby soon, because the enjoyment o mapmaking is starting to fail as a reward. I would love to do level design (or concept art) as a job. Another reason is that I haven't played any multiplayer games for a long time besides some sporadic HLDM match.




Quote
 Re: What do you do when you aren't here?
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Apr 1st at 11:55pm 2007

I'll tell'ya a small portion of my lack of incentive. This is Snarkpit ver. 4.5. The only thing that made it here from the previous versions was us, our maps and a few tutorials.

When you think about it, a very large portion of our earliest contributions to the mapping community were in the previous postings. (and I might add, when HL1 was at its peak, and so were we. )

My point, albeit a small one to most is, that people coming here since HL2 ( Our biggest increase in member signups ) have no idea whom I am.

In all seriousness, I really don't want to have to go through the hassle it took to get to where I am and there is no way they can look through versions 1-3 to find out.

Its rather depressing sometimes to think about the lost posts I made that could have helped someone.

I have forgotten more about HL1 mapping, than some now have and that bothers me sometimes. Memory loss isn't funny I can assure you.

Anyway, its not just HL2 that has me not mapping.





The best things in life, aren't things.



Quote
 Re: What do you do when you aren't here?
Posted by Kasperg_JM on Mon Apr 2nd at 12:22am 2007

It'd be a bold thing to say, but maybe gaming (not only mapping) just isn't as interesting as it was years ago.
When the jump was made from 2D to 3D engines, games (specially the Quake series and HL+mods) motivated gamers to become mappers and enjoy the novelty of creating 3D worlds. But we have entered a new generation, and few things have changed. The level of detail needed in maps has risen, but that's not usually a motivation. On the contrary, many mappers find it a setback in comparison.
You'll still see a lot of young people (or just new to the mapping world) trying to learn the ropes of source mapping and producing killboxes, and the effect is uglier than before. You could keep things simple with HL1 because our expectations weren't as high.

The FPS genre in my humble opinion is dying. Sure, you'll get prettier graphics effects like we've seen in Crysis videos, occassional original things from Valve and random unique settings like in the upcoming title Bioshock. But most of the time, it's a path we have already walked along, only with renewed pavement.
I wish more games would take us in wonderful and surreal journeys, since technology and imagination are ever-increasing. But no. We still get our abandoned factory and office levels.






Quote
 Re: What do you do when you aren't here?
Posted by Orpheus on Mon Apr 2nd at 12:32am 2007

I wish Unreals level of beauty would cross the threshold into HL.

On another note: With regards to your abandoned offices and factories...

I travel, prolly more than anyone else in level editing but the point is, I see things that would make a killer map, but there is no way in hell any engine could recreate it for the stuff in each frame.

I do occasionally post things in my Photo thread but many I just don't take pictures of because the level of detail is just phenomenal.

Sometimes though I long for the simplicity of Duke3D. It was hard to map for sometimes, especially of you forgot something vital like water and mirrors but when you were through you had a fantastic looking level that would fit comfortably on a 3.5 diskette with room to spare. AND run easily on a 486/33.

My Christmas list this year is going to include Unreal 4. I hear it will have additive mapping capabilities, and that might be enough for me to swap allegiances from HL.





The best things in life, aren't things.



Quote
 Re: What do you do when you aren't here?
Posted by Kasperg_JM on Mon Apr 2nd at 12:58am 2007

I won't argue that those places would make killer maps, but those scenes would still be "part of this world". Now I'm not saying that we shouldn't map parts of our world (it would be hypocritical to say that after making that Fallingwater map). What I mean is that repetition is not good.
We have seen a lot of Source maps with factory themes and filled with pipes. To be honest, I can't remember which scenes belonged to which maps since the level of uniqueness was rather short. They were mostly excellent maps technically speaking (brushwork, texturing, layout) but missing another aspect.
For me, a map has to work as a game level (withstand multiple rounds of multiplayer games for example) but it should also work as a one-time architecture trip (most maps are exactly THAT, since they end up never being played at all!).
If they can offer something interesting on just a walk around, it's certainly a bonus. I'm one of those people who wouldn't play a very ugly map with the excuse of its good gameplay. I consider visual input and eye-candy a very important part of gameplay, not something aside.
When it comes to Unreal, I think they really have the visual style of unique worlds, but over the years they recycle themselves a lot. Even the mix of temple+technology stops being a novelty.

I'd also like to give the Unreal Engine a try, since apparently it's much easier to work with smaller scale objects. Sort of like making prefabs with the level of detail of a prop model.
It'd also help working with a game without the need to compile the maps in spans of 5 hours, which is something I hate (but understand) about Source mapping. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/sad.gif">




Quote
 Re: What do you do when you aren't here?
Posted by Orpheus on Mon Apr 2nd at 1:07am 2007

Good luck with it. Even with my experience it took me a very long time to make simple things like water, and lights. Its not "OMG" hard, but to simply say its hard just doesn't do it. I have literally hundreds of printed pages of Unreal editing tutorials. Thats something I never had to do with WorldCraft.

I will be curious to see the additive procedure with U4.





The best things in life, aren't things.



Quote
 Re: What do you do when you aren't here?
Posted by Naklajat on Mon Apr 2nd at 3:33am 2007

offtopic{

*whispers*
It's Unreal Tournament 3, not Unreal 4

And yes, it has the ability to use additive BSP, and can still use subtractive brushes which is a much easier process than building stuff out of many different brushes. You can grab RoboBlitz on steam or retail to check out the Unreal Engine 3 editor. Even though it's not feature complete compared to what UT3 will have, most things will be the pretty much the same. Occlusion is calculated from all world polygons, including meshes IIRC, and larger-scale visibility/actor cleanup/management is handled by streaming seperate levels in and out, so you can theoretically have a level the size of the grid in all directions, and have only a small portion in memory at one time.

}



Quote
 Re: What do you do when you aren't here?
Posted by FatStrings on Mon Apr 2nd at 1:42pm 2007

i voted one, but it's really a combination of 1 3 and 4

this weekend I was out camping, got back Sunday morning, slept then worked on homework, i didn't get online last night because I had to string my tennis racket, I recently purchased Mount&Blade and have been putting some time into that



Quote
 Re: What do you do when you aren't here?
Posted by reaper47 on Mon Apr 2nd at 6:25pm 2007

? quote:
When it comes to Unreal, I think they really have the visual style of
unique worlds, but over the years they recycle themselves a lot. Even
the mix of temple+technology stops being a novelty.


That's what I've been thinking, too. I love UnrealEd (subtractive mapping), though. It's much easier to build complex rooms and faster than Hammer.


Why snark works.



Quote
 Re: What do you do when you aren't here?
Posted by Naklajat on Mon Apr 2nd at 7:35pm 2007

Previous versions of Unreal have had lots of nice textures (as did HL1). The set of textures that comes with HL2 covers a very narrow spectrum of environments and covers it very well. Step outside that spectrum, and you become starved for textures that 'fit'. HL2 especially lacks clean textures, everything is rusted and decaying (enter factory setting).

? quote:
It's much easier to build complex rooms and faster than Hammer.

UE3 has the best of both worlds. You can build a room wall by wall or drop a big additive brush (or a series of them) and subtract the room. There's also no need to seal the void, a single additive brush, a light and a spawn point is a working level. If you're interested in mapping for UT3 or any of the myriad games using UE3 in development, pick up RoboBlitz, it's only like $15 (Editor Wiki).



Quote
 Re: What do you do when you aren't here?
Posted by DocRock on Tue Apr 3rd at 4:50pm 2007

I voted for no. 4 - other hobbies take up my spare time.

I spend a great deal of my time researching 9/11, posting on blogs, getting in conversations with strangers about it. I listen to many different alternative radio stations, not the main stream. Also, I visit this site quite regularly.

However, I do still map, and I also play Guild Wars and Final Fantasy Online when I have some spare time. I only come on the SnarkPit at work, and not often at all.




Condemnation without Investigation is the Highest Form of Ignorance!



Quote
 Re: What do you do when you aren't here?
Posted by Le Chief on Fri Apr 6th at 1:08pm 2007

When I am not on snarkpit, i'm either on bungie.net, playing Halo games, at school or working on my mad-as mod (reddawn). :dodgy:


Aaron's Stuff




« previous page 1
2
Post Reply