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 Re: VT Shooting
Posted by DocRock on Wed Apr 18th at 5:00pm 2007

this isn't a matter of opinion. it's a matter of tragic facts. students visually identified the shooter as they ran for their lives. these weren't black-ops commandos, it was a seriously messed up and deluded individual. (you should be able to relate.) did he have some sort of mind-control chip planted in his head leading to the shootings? maybe that'd make your theory actually make sense.

Never said anything about commandos. I'll bet ya that within a few days, it will come out that the shooter was on some kind of mind drugs. Probably prescribed by some psychiatrist he had been seeing. If it comes out that he had been doing these drugs, it wouldn't be the first time. Read some history on previous shootings and I'll bet ya anything those shooters were on the same type of drug. It's all about gun control. Period.




Condemnation without Investigation is the Highest Form of Ignorance!



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 Re: VT Shooting
Posted by Adam Hawkins on Wed Apr 18th at 5:16pm 2007

Dude, where do you come up with this crap? If it means that much to you, go create your own thread so that we can further lower our opinion of you. This is not the time nor the place to be making up stories. I really worry about your mental state if you think that your own government kill people off on such a grand scale simply to stop idiots like you from carrying guns.

I've defended you in the past Doc, but now I see the error of my ways.

As I said before, people have died unjustly, they and their families deserve some respect in their time of grief.




You Got To Get Through What You've Got To Go Through To Get What You Want But You Got To Know What You Want To Get Through What You Got To Go Through



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 Re: VT Shooting
Posted by DocRock on Wed Apr 18th at 6:38pm 2007

You all are more comfortable with watching Dancing With the Stars and seeing Brittany Spears shave her head. I even bet you guys think Don Imus was in the wrong and needed 3 days of constant coverage on the mainstream news sites. I bet you think he deserved to be fired, and I bet you think Rosie O'Donnell needs to be hung for standing up for what went wrong on 9/11 and building 7 collapsing.

Just keep your head buried deep, folks. I'm done here and won't be back.

You are all total lost causes. Shame on you and God help us!




Condemnation without Investigation is the Highest Form of Ignorance!



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 Re: VT Shooting
Posted by OtZman on Wed Apr 18th at 6:46pm 2007

? quoting reaper47
Sorry for being so European, but if anyone carried a gun all the times, there'd be hundreds of "snap out" moments with people getting shot. Maybe an armed guy guarding the campus or something.

But the cold war style "if we both got nukes, everything is balanced" attitude is wrong IMO.

I'm thinking the same thing. If two people get so pissed at each other they want to kill each other, it's better if it ends in a fist fight than a gun fight.




What the Snarkpitters listen to!



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 Re: VT Shooting
Posted by Gwil on Wed Apr 18th at 7:13pm 2007

We predicted you would react in this way Doc. Needless to say, as an informant of the SHADOW GOVERNMENT ILLUMINATI ALLIANCE I have informed my superiors in the NEW WORLD ORDER. A team of agents is on the way to kidnap you and erase any thoughts you have of individual liberty, INSTEAD REPLACING THEM WITH LOVE OF "DANCING WITH THE STARS" and the one you call "BRITNEY SPEARS".

You cannot elude the power of THE GLOBAL "GREYS" CONSPIRACY we are the all seeing and all knowing.



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 Re: VT Shooting
Posted by Dr Brasso on Wed Apr 18th at 9:12pm 2007

"by the power of grey-skulls"....

.....knock knock doc....

Doc B...





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 Re: VT Shooting
Posted by Naklajat on Thu Apr 19th at 12:55am 2007

@DocRock:
Tact [takt] (n.)
1. a keen sense of what to say or do to avoid giving offense; skill in dealing with difficult or delicate situations.
2. a keen sense of what is appropriate, tasteful, or aesthetically pleasing; taste; discrimination.

Show some.

And toward the people who seem to think American gun owners are loose cannon cowboy hotshots with a chip on their shoulder and something to prove: Anyone who wants to carry a gun and is qualified to do so (not mentally ill, not a felon), can, and there AREN'T people getting shot left and right. Banning guns would not keep them out of the hands of criminals, the gun-wielding criminals would just have less opposition.


=o



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 Re: VT Shooting
Posted by Stadric on Thu Apr 19th at 2:29am 2007

First let me say I support the 2nd Amendment on the grounds that the people may use arms to overthrow their government. I think an abolishment of gun laws would work like the abolishment of prohibition of alcohol, the negative effects on society would increase for a short period of time, and then fall below the level during the prohibition.
On the other hand, I wouldn't trust most of my high school with a plastic fork, let alone a gun. My opinion hasn't been fully formed.

Conspiracies exist, but calling the flavor of the week news event a conspiracy so soon is rash. Collect evidence, and rebuttals to that evidence, and be prepared to defend your position. Do not make a generalization just for the hell of it. Accusations of mind control do not make a conspiracy. I have yet to see some actual evidence in favor of the conspiracy.
While tact is also important, we can overlook a tragedy to see the underlying cause.

I don't think the issue surrounding this tragedy is gun control, I think it's a lack of action on the part of the school administration. They saw the warning signs, and yet they did nothing. They could've prevented this.

I think it's stupid that parents are paying for their children's college education, but, due to US privacy laws, they are only allowed to see their children's grades after signing a form, they can't know if little Billy has been going to class, or what his teachers think of him, etc. If Billy's got a screw loose, I doubt he'd tell Mom and Dad himself.


Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying



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 Re: VT Shooting
Posted by reaper47 on Thu Apr 19th at 11:41am 2007

? quote:
I don't think the issue surrounding this tragedy is gun control, I think it's a lack of action on the part of the school administration. They saw the warning signs, and yet they did nothing. They could've prevented this.


Agreed. But you have to admit that it's weird that someone who showed such clear signs of mental instability could acquire 2 guns. I think he bought them legally.

He was in a mental institution for aggressive behavior.

"Cho Seung Hui was declared ?mentally ill? and an ?imminent danger to others? by a judge nearly 18 months before Monday?s attacks."

I don't get it why you're defending his right to bear arms? There should be limits. It's not about the people that haven't been declared an imminent danger to others, it's about the people that have.


Why snark works.



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 Re: VT Shooting
Posted by Gwil on Thu Apr 19th at 12:12pm 2007

Even if there were full gun control, or better gun control to restrict access to the mentally ill, there is still going to be a trade in guns which doesn't follow the letter of the law. If he wasn't able to obtain a gun through the normal channels, the criminal underworld is always willing supply weapons to those who seek them.

It's the same thing when holding a gun or knife amnesty - the UK government recently lauded the success of a knife amnesty, only for there to be a frenzy of stabbings in the past few months. Those who have the desire to seek and keep weapons will find them and certainly will not surrender them for the greater good.

I'd side with your initial thoughts that a campus security program should have been in place, certainly a better response to the initial shooting could have averted some damage. Even then, considering the size of an average university campus, this looks like a simple but sad case of an unavoidable loss of life.



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 Re: VT Shooting
Posted by Naklajat on Thu Apr 19th at 12:39pm 2007

To me, the big question is why didn't any of the faculty seek professional help for him? Psychological problems don't just go away or get better on their own, and some students and teachers were actually afraid of him. Seems pretty damn negligent to me.

If you ask Dr. Phil though, video games are the real culprit here.


=o



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 Re: VT Shooting
Posted by reaper47 on Thu Apr 19th at 2:49pm 2007

Well, here's another one: It's not that easy to get guns illegally.

Maybe it is, in third world countries or the saddest corners of some US ghetto (and the question why it would be so easy to get them illegally still remains). But this guy wasn't a criminal mastermind. Not in the "scene" or whatever.

Where would you go to get a gun? Where would you look for? Is there an illegal gun dealer advertising in the internets to the general public? Close to a campus, perhaps? Certainly not anywhere near to where I live. I bet you had to spend quite some time in the real underwold to get even close to an illegal arms dealer.

I just found this pic in a news post in which the guy is posing with a hammer. A hammer!

I don't believe that getting a gun illegally is so easy for your average deranged college kid. I don't believe it. He wasn't the kind a person who walks up do some underworld type of guy asking "Hey bro, you know where I can get me a gun?". He wasn't the kind of guy who would leave the house in the first place.


Why snark works.



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 Re: VT Shooting
Posted by Natus on Thu Apr 19th at 3:10pm 2007

According to swedish newspaper he was mimicking a korean movie.



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 Re: VT Shooting
Posted by Bewbies on Thu Apr 19th at 3:52pm 2007

that hammer picture makes it kind of difficult to take him seriously. he needs a PS makeover..

image

much better.




the players tried to take the field
the marching band refused to yield



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 Re: VT Shooting
Posted by Naklajat on Thu Apr 19th at 4:41pm 2007

ROFL

I stand by my original sentiment of "it's hard for me to care all that much, 33 out of 6.5 billion isn't all that much."

I should start taking bets as to whether it will get as much coverage on major news outlets as Anna Nicole Smith's death...

I QUIT THIS THREAD.


=o



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 Re: VT Shooting
Posted by azelito on Thu Apr 19th at 7:32pm 2007

? quote:
According to swedish newspaper he was mimicking a korean movie.

Old Boy! Awesome movie.


"Azelito, stop being a f**king bitch. All I see you do is complain and insult people in your recent posts. We don't care, go find a razor you emo pansy..." -Windows98



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 Re: VT Shooting
Posted by OtZman on Fri Apr 20th at 1:11am 2007

? quoting reaper47

Agreed. But you have to admit that it's weird that someone who showed such clear signs of mental instability could acquire 2 guns. I think he bought them legally.

If I remember correctly, he bought them illegally. I saw an interview with they guy who had sold him the guns, and apparently he didn't feel any regret. He said that even if he hadn't sold them to him someone else would have.

It could be that it's easier to acquire guns illegally because they're so easy to acquire legally. Now anyone old enough can buy alcohol and then sell it illegally, but if alcohol was illegal this would be much harder. I think it's the same with guns. In Sweden for example, I think most people would have serious trouble getting their hands on any guns, so I agree with reaper.




What the Snarkpitters listen to!



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 Re: VT Shooting
Posted by RedWood on Fri Apr 20th at 4:01am 2007

I actually found out recently that if i were determined enough that i could acquire a gun illegally if i wanted to. It would be hard. I think i have to through a friend of a friend of a friend to do it but i was surprised that it even possible for me. For anyone livening outside the USA, know it is not easy for the average jow to get there hands on an unregistered pistol. And this is coming from someone who lives unconformabley close to Detroit.



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 Re: VT Shooting
Posted by Gwil on Fri Apr 20th at 11:19am 2007

All good points, but even if unable to acquire a gun legally, I still feel he would have been able to obtain one. Recent reports in the UK (which has a far more violent culture than Austria or Sweden, so I don't think it would be fair to compare two European states with either the UK or US) suggest that large numbers of the guns being circulated amongst urban areas are simply reactivated replicas.

Anybody who was determined to get a gun could easily buy an airsoft pistol, find reactivation instructions and get hold pf some ammunition. EVEN if the killer were still unable to obtain his weapon through such channels, if the drive was high enough, he would improvise. Knives, petrol bombs, nail bombs, pipe bombs etc.

I just feel that gun control is highly unlikely in the United States due to the national mindset, and even if it were to pass, how the hell do you take 200m guns out of circulation successfully? You can't.

The handgun ban and amnesty following the Dunblane massacre in Britain, 1996 was so successful because registration of guns previously was so stringent, and in reality, there wasn't many gun owners in the first place.



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 Re: VT Shooting
Posted by reaper47 on Fri Apr 20th at 5:29pm 2007

It wouldn't happen from one day to the other. But the US are an example for a country where stricter gun control would make sense and would certainly have a positive impact in the long terms. It could take 20 or 50 years, but every second news report from the US makes it clear that any lunatic can buy a gun at a local store there without a problem.

But it likely won't happen and wouldn't change much anytime soon.

I think the psychology of such events is much more important. People and the media love to see this as some act of purely illogical, satanic evilness. That's wrong IMO. It's up for the people involved to mourn, and for all the other people following this on the news maybe a moment of shock and anger. But then it's important to look into who this guy really was, what drove him to do this and most importantly finding a way to talk to people like him before something happens.

It didn't even come at a surprise. People knew he was a potential danger. What's most interesting for me is what people could have done. They even reported him to the police, he was convicted of some aggressive behavior, sent to a hospital and still it ended so tragically.

Most of the school shooters in recent years even tried to seek help before they snapped out but there obviously isn't any for this kind of people. Maybe it's possible to find a way to talk to them, to contact them ect.

? quote:
it's hard for me to care all that much, 33 out of 6.5 billion isn't all that much


I'm surprised you say that. It's far below anything DocRock said.


Why snark works.




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