Vote! Snarkpit Chain Map: Round 1
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Re: Vote! Snarkpit Chain Map: Round 1
Posted by Riven on Sat Jun 2nd at 5:12am 2007


Well, I was born in Lafayette, but live in Sulphur (just west of Lake Charles). Will be moving to Ruston for college though. I'm told Lake Charles has the better food. I don't consider myself a coonass, but I have plenty of relatives that are.

I'll try to record a demo when I get home, but it won't be of my first time; but to answer your immediate questions:

-I fought the antlion guard around the north turret post, so that it couldn't get me. Pretty much played "ring around the rosy." I realized I could operate the gun from a really far unreasonable distance from behind! So I went ahead and took advantage of that. I suppose it was cheating in a way.

-I did find the ar2, but didn't use it much though.

-Yea, the decal was weird, and <spoiler>the zombie freaked me out</spoiler>, -good one.







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Re: Vote! Snarkpit Chain Map: Round 1
Posted by Stadric on Sat Jun 2nd at 5:34am 2007


@Finger
I did all of those.
The guard kicked my ass in the bathroom. After that I had to give myself some health vials in the console.
That reminds me, at the top of the stairs that you blocked off with a combine wall, the decal rubbish don't cross from one brush to the next on the walls.



Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying



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Re: Vote! Snarkpit Chain Map: Round 1
Posted by Fjorn on Sat Jun 2nd at 10:10am 2007


finger:
yes: I hid in the vent and emptied all my ammo into it until it died
yes: Was like 'cool, ar2'
no: There was a decal?



Signature? What signature!?



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Re: Vote! Snarkpit Chain Map: Round 1
Posted by Rumple on Sat Jun 2nd at 3:37pm 2007


? quoting finger
Did anybody fight the antlion guard in the bathroom?

Crawl into the antlion hole for the ar2?

Get a good look at the decal at the ending hallway?


Hid in the vent and shot it in the nuts lots (it has nuts, right? image).

Yes.

No, did jump though image image Edit: Even jumped the second time through even though I knew what was coming image

Nice map overall.

Edit: Does the button in near the antlion hole have a purpose, and also I noticed it sounds like there are a heap of combine behind the wall in that room are there supposed to be more that come out?



<A HREF="http://rumple.biz" TARGET="_blank">SourDough2.0</A> - With Strawberry Jam



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Re: Vote! Snarkpit Chain Map: Round 1
Posted by fishy on Sat Jun 2nd at 4:16pm 2007


It boiled down to a choice between Fingers action, and Rivens progression of story. Both maps are winners, but it was Fingers more thorough use of the actual base map that was the deciding factor for me, so he got my vote.

I'd love to see both maps combined though. Maybe a compo for the best buggy ride would be a good way to do that. (hint, hint)

Finger, I was hiding in the vents with everybody else, I got he AR, and do you mean the big YOU WIN decal?




i eat paint



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Re: Vote! Snarkpit Chain Map: Round 1
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Sat Jun 2nd at 7:26pm 2007


I tricked the guard into knocking over the two sentry guns and clearing out that hall with all the manhacks... basically he killed almost every single combine on the map before I gave him his eternal reward.

As far as the competition:

Redwood: Never ever release anything with leaks, period.

Stadric: I have no idea what you changed but thanks for inflating the filesize of the zip for those of us on dialup.

Riven: Nice try I suppose. The cave is retardedly small, throw in the buggy and well... it becomes worse. The big issue I have with this map is that its supposed to be the first section of a chain map created by many different authors, yet you have restricted future mappers by already declaring what the next maps must feature (sub pen, sub interior, greenland military base?!). That's not even mentioning these 'new aliens' and how other authors are supposed to interpret or even use them in their sections. There's too much 'story' for a series of maps that will inevitably be light on story and heavy on action (or at least should be) by the very nature of the competition.

Basically if you were making this as the start of your own single player mod then it would be a solid beginning, but as a community map with many different people's input it will not work.

Finger: Rock solid, if a little too short. Fun action, quality design, good use of various HL2 elements. Everything I would expect from a mapper of your caliber. This is the perfect foundation for the rest of the competition. It gives hints of a story without railroading future mappers down a path and it uses the basic HL2 ingredients without requiring new assets. You have my vote.





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Re: Vote! Snarkpit Chain Map: Round 1
Posted by Riven on Sat Jun 2nd at 9:07pm 2007


@ Yak_Fighter, you're right. Making a map like mine for this competition simply won't work because relying on story and expecting someone else to pick it up would become a bit troublesome. I don't think the interpretation of the given story would be the problem, but the change of given story to different stories developed by that mapper. Others wishing to incorporate their own story would change too many things up, and their would be no coherent story at all through the course of the compilation. I did not think about this whatsoever, excuse my lack of forethought, and selfishness for being so narrow-minded.

A competition like this needs to be pretty generalized as each map should be able to contain within itself a short adventure from beginning to end with a climax left open for anyone to pick up from any perspective. Obviously, some challenges would be for the mapper to keep the same setting, or figure a way to make a nice transition from map to map, but the level would need to be contained within itself.

This brings up several problems though:

What would the challenge be if people didn't have to worry about story? I know their following the HL2 universal story, but particular events contained from map to map would not create any new themes for single player adventure. The player wouldn't know why their traveling from place to place. Monsters would get heavier simply because it was close to the end of the level, not for any particular purpose other than gameplay, it would become very monotonous.

All I'm saying is: figuring out story and purpose should be part of the challenge for creativity!







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Re: Vote! Snarkpit Chain Map: Round 1
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Sat Jun 2nd at 9:54pm 2007


? quoting Riven
excuse my lack of forethought, and selfishness for being so narrow-minded.

Now now I wasn't saying that. :

? quote:
the rest

I agree to an extent, as it should be important to have a story and to have at least a little coherency between maps. It's just that it is gonna be a very barebones story in such a collaborative work, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. For example, my favorite sp map is HL:Uplink and that had about as much story as Quake. I also liked Lost Coast and that was as storyless as Uplink.

Story is no doubt important for single player maps, but its far more important for a multiple hour, multi-chapter single player epic than it is for an action focused series that lasts for like 45 minutes.





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Re: Vote! Snarkpit Chain Map: Round 1
Posted by Junkyard God on Sat Jun 2nd at 10:58pm 2007


I think it could be a different competition, maybe a next chain map, that we, in round 1, all try to make up a good story line or base for a story line on which other mappers can build and add to.

But for now i agree to Yak fighter for the most of it, if a story is not writen before the map starts to take shape, i think it should be mostly 'left out' perhaps and we'll have to stick to the talent of the individual mappers to make each map creative, interesting and action packed in a different way to stop it becomming monotone.

Ofcourse it will just be walking down a chain of maps killing stuff, but that's what an FPS is, story or no story you'll still be running down hallways killing people, if people can enjoy games such as Doom or Serious Sam, then we can sure as hell put our hands together to make a thrilling half life 2 map series that will entertain people <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

A story line is great, but it needs alot of thought before the actual mapping starts to really work.
It'll just be a shoot em up with a story tied around it loosely if we add a specific theme / story line now I think, since everyone will add in their own way, to the story.



Hell, is an half-filled auditorium



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Re: Vote! Snarkpit Chain Map: Round 1
Posted by Fjorn on Sun Jun 3rd at 12:02am 2007


Actually, part of the contest is blending in with the previous maps

Story is part of that.

Riven's story is an assault on a combine military base while an unknown comes out from the sea to beat on the combine

Finger's story is an escape from a train station turned combine execution facility


The next parts of this contest will have to incorporate this... whoever wins



Signature? What signature!?



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Re: Vote! Snarkpit Chain Map: Round 1
Posted by RedWood on Sun Jun 3rd at 12:03am 2007


Well, what can i say about my map that hasn't all ready been said. I agree with all of it. Despite knowing the criteria for judging i decided to simply try to pass off an idea. And believe it or not, it only turned out a little bit worse than i expected. One thing though, I didn't compile under full bright. I fell asleep, woke up late for class, got back from class and found that BVS needed my entry right away. So i didn't have time to check it before i sent it. I don't know what happened. I was pissed when i found out.

Further more, i couldn't get get Finger's or Riven's map to run. setting it to DX8 didn't help. I ended up decompiling it and recompiling it. Which lead to errors.

Finger: Well done but, i don't think it's a good start to a series. Your thrown in way to fast. Your given 5 weapons in about 3 minutes and the antlion guard makes it fell like started off facing a boss. I think this level would be beautiful set later in game. It could be used as a excellent transition between two vary different settings. I voted for yours.

Riven: I don't really have anything new to say. It could have been because of the recompile but it was a little dry. I was really impressed with the under ground base. The stairs were off scale but it looked believable.

Stadric: Looks like it was a good start.

I'm impressed that both of you got all that done in to weeks. I was expecting to lose but i feel like i just lost the special Olympics. image I think ill take a different aproch next time.

Let my entry be a message to everyone that your entry doesn't have to be as good as Fingers or Riven to compete. Don't be embarrassed, because your entry couldn't possibly worse than mine. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">




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Re: Vote! Snarkpit Chain Map: Round 1
Posted by Junkyard God on Sun Jun 3rd at 8:03am 2007


You know what RedWood, I personally don't see the problem of your map having some issues, as it does give us the idea of what you wanted to do, other mappers could have expanded on it / fixed it's errors.
I just like Finger's map more in terms of playability, but you're right on the fact that it's not neccesarily a good start of a game as it does start of kind of hard and fast.



Hell, is an half-filled auditorium



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Re: Vote! Snarkpit Chain Map: Round 1
Posted by Beetle on Sun Jun 3rd at 9:50pm 2007


gets to where the white combine soldier says "Move it!" (pretty much after i get put in prison).


combine_executioner1: unknown scripted sequence "walk"

then it goes no further, so im guessing it doesn't work with ep1





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Re: Vote! Snarkpit Chain Map: Round 1
Posted by Junkyard God on Mon Jun 4th at 7:13am 2007


ep1 isn't the same egnine i guess, they modded it a bunch and i wouldn't be suprised if hl2 stock stuff didn't work in it.


Hell, is an half-filled auditorium



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Re: Vote! Snarkpit Chain Map: Round 1
Posted by Finger on Mon Jun 4th at 4:18pm 2007


Sorry it doesn't work with Ep1 <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/sad.gif"> You should buy hl2 though - it's a great game.

Thanks for all the feedback on the map - nice to know how people played it. A couple of people stated that it might not be a good start for the series, because it jumps right into some pretty intense combat, and gives you a few major weapons right off the bat. I'll give you my thoughts on that.

- I think it's better to start something like this off with a bang. People have played enough hl2 to understand the world, weapons, etc, therefore we don't really have to train people as much, and can start out with a little more action and challenge.

- The intensity doesn't have to remain this high. Movies do this all the time; starting out with an action sequence to hook people, then slowing down a bit to introduce the story. This tale could do the same. Who knows where you travel after the train station? Maybe you wander into a creepy zombie infested town like Ravenholm, or find some hidden combine portal that takes you back to Xen from HL1. Anything could happen.

- Weapons? You can control the ammo to sculpt the combat. We've all played HL2 and I'm not really interested in starting out with a pea-shooter once more. Let's give people some real combat tools and throw a real challenge at them. Also, I REALLY wanted to give the gravity gun, because it IS HL2 combat, and almost all singleplayer mods I've played leave it out. It's a great puzzle tool and just damn fun.

- As as general point, I think we will be way more successful if we keep things as much in the HL universe as possible, working with the assetts available. Riven did a great job with his vcd's, but that's probably as far as someone can take it without biting off more than they can handle in a 2 week challenge cycle. It's hard enough to simply script and tune a small singleplayer level in 2 weeks (well, if you work full time like I do). Also, there's still a lot of potential for creativity even within this limited palette.





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Re: Vote! Snarkpit Chain Map: Round 1
Posted by Junkyard God on Mon Jun 4th at 4:32pm 2007


Pretty good explenations for having such a start and I think you have one major advantage at your side on this at the moment and that is the fact that we have no story line, we need to keep things interesting in different ways, and i think this is a great way to do it looking at it from your perspective.

You've changed my mind on the fact that it would maybe be a strange started map.



Hell, is an half-filled auditorium



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Re: Vote! Snarkpit Chain Map: Round 1
Posted by RedWood on Mon Jun 4th at 10:23pm 2007


Thats a good argument. You've changed my mind. mostly. It's a nice find but i think the AR2 could be left until a little later. Given the good cover and relatively short range of the combat i think the seen should be left to rely on the shotgun mostly. Leave the smg in but don't leave any (or vary little) ammo lying around. Leave the pistol in. it doesn't matter. The grenades are good. These are all just suggestions of course.



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Re: Vote! Snarkpit Chain Map: Round 1
Posted by Stadric on Tue Jun 5th at 12:06am 2007


From what I could see, some of the combine spawns were caused by triggers on one side of the tracks. You have to be in the area when the combine come to town, so you better have the right weapon. I especially needed that ar2 alternate fire round.


Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying



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Re: Vote! Snarkpit Chain Map: Round 1
Posted by Fjorn on Tue Jun 5th at 12:17am 2007


Yeah, the ar2 sec and the impact grenade came in very handy


Signature? What signature!?



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Re: Vote! Snarkpit Chain Map: Round 1
Posted by RedWood on Tue Jun 5th at 1:46am 2007


I didn't use ether of them (odd). Actually, i forgot i had the impact grenade. Probably a side effect of picking so much up at once. Well, if you pulled out the AR2 you would have to make some changes.

How lone are we go to wait before we start the next round?





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