On behalf of Orpheus
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Re: On behalf of Orpheus
Posted by Cassius on Tue Jan 6th at 5:52am 2004


No. There is nothing anyone can ever say that will make me believe that for some reason anyone should not have defended what they believed because they didn't want Orph to leave, that much is ridiculous. He had a very different set of values from any one of us, and it's only natural that we argued with him, often to a boiling point.

It is not okay that people began holding grudges against him - he was hated because he was misunderstood. He frequently found himself without anyone to stand on his side during a debate, and almost as frequently would I come to his side to try and even things out - but you learn after a while that he seemed to fight better on his own.

For that same reason, I don't think Orph is going Agamemmnon-style on us or something of the like. He won't be crawling back for as long as I can see - he has an amazing willpower in that regard and others, which some of us decided to turn on it's ass and call it stubbornness, and that is precisely why he left. I don't think it was any fault of his own - knowing full well how Orph would react, we chose to needlessly prod at his pride, and when he fought back, there were those who mocked him for it.

[addsig]




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Re: On behalf of Orpheus
Posted by 7dk2h4md720ih on Tue Jan 6th at 5:55am 2004


Well said cass.



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Re: On behalf of Orpheus
Posted by Wild Card on Tue Jan 6th at 2:35pm 2004


? posted by Alien_Sniper
How touching, except his name is Jon...

Damn...

[addsig]




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Re: On behalf of Orpheus
Posted by Gav on Tue Jan 6th at 4:12pm 2004


True Cass, I mean he founded DRS, and he hasn't gone back to them. Musta been a bit odd. Fortunately I still chat to him quite a bit on other forums so he will know how I feel. [addsig]



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Re: On behalf of Orpheus
Posted by Dr Brasso on Tue Jan 6th at 5:31pm 2004


the biggest obstacle that i can see he had to deal with around here was, well, yer not gonna like this, but its the truth....the age factor.....Orph is a seasoned veteran of life, and as such, he has developed his values and beliefs base much further than most of you....and im older than he is, if that gives you any insight as to MY mindset....kids today simply dont have the experience to see thru the vast sea of bulls**t out there, you only see and react to the glaze on the surface....although there are exceptions to this rule around here, it is the norm....and thats just life....it might do you all well, myself included, to reflect a bit on yer motives and bases for argument here....hes a helluva guy, whether you all appreciate that or not....and wise beyond his years...with no tolerance for uninformed, petty, and un-thought-out bulls**t statements....i second his beliefs...as they are my own as well for the most part. one day hopefully you guys will understand what im saying....times have changed, and in my book, definately not for the better....here endeth the lecture....fire away.

Doc Brass...

[addsig]




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Re: On behalf of Orpheus
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Tue Jan 6th at 5:58pm 2004


I don't know Doc. age alone does not make a person wise (that isn't a stab at Orph). from my perspective, people from my parents generation are in many cases inflexibly molded into a political shape which reflects their own era, rather than changing dynamicly to accomidate the world we actualy live in. Granted age bestows a more solid frame of reference, but what's the point if that frame is skewed by the experiences that created it?

Take an example: the difference in how people react to a uniform. my brother is a Lutenant the Coast Guard and he has made this observation:

people from the WWII generation are always thrilled to see him in his uniform, and compliment him on it. people from the vietnam generation generaly look askance and ask, why are you whearing that. a clearly negative responce. finaly, people from my generation are completly mixed in their responces, some react with entusiasim while others do so with disgust.

This may partly proove your point in that it illistrates the amorphous opinion of young people, but my feeling is that it also shows a degree of sophistication that we are making our own opinions without particular regaurd to what the government, or our peers for that matter, tell us. this in contrast with the mass protest of vietnam, and the mass enlistments of WWII. in both cases, in my opinion, young people were cought up by the popular movement and operating more on the opinion of the majority than their own.

I do not claim to have any idea what Bushes motivations for the war are. My feeling though is that he is sincerly trying to do what is right for the world. Whether what has been done is a good thing or not remains to be seen. in my opinion Sadam should have been removed in the first gulf war. it had to be done, I'm just not sure it was done right.

[addsig]




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Re: On behalf of Orpheus
Posted by Dr Brasso on Tue Jan 6th at 6:48pm 2004


very nice retort TB....im glad we are gonna discuss this instead of \"inflexably\" flexing our muscles...

lets go point by point....

Tracer Bullet

I don\'t know Doc. age alone does not make a person wise (that isn\'t a stab at Orph).

exactly my first point..as i said, there are exceptions to the rule....

from my perspective, people from my parents generation are in many cases inflexibly molded into a political shape which reflects their own era, rather than changing dynamicly to accomidate the world we actualy live in. Granted age bestows a more solid frame of reference, but what\'s the point if that frame is skewed by the experiences that created it?

it is exactly those experiences, good and bad, which shape the values we hold dear....and all are shaped differently.....the times hold the mold...WW2...the world fought a common set of a problems, for the most part....the enemies were acknowledged, and feared, and the concensus was built because of the obvious impending consequenses.....prolly the last time the world has been that united....which is why:

people from the WWII generation are always thrilled to see him in his uniform, and compliment him on it.

when i came back from the Nam, i was struck at the venom to which we arrived...

people from the vietnam generation generaly look askance and ask, why are you whearing that. a clearly negative responce

..the world we lived in was split because the enemy was not a common one, and split the country into fragmented political structures, to wit, we have yet to recover...

finaly, people from my generation are completly mixed in their responces, some react with entusiasim while others do so with disgust..

because they have had no unifying set of events in which they HAD to rally together to defeat a common enemy.....and even after the 9-11 event, they still are dissaffected to some degree...thus the split continues....and until we have a few more events such as that, im of the firm belief we will NOT be unified in our fight (and it is a WORLD fight, not just ours) against these friggin fanatical lunatics that cant wait to get to Allah....unfortunate, and sad actually, but all to real. which emphasises the next point....

This may partly proove your point in that it illistrates the amorphous opinion of young people, but my feeling is that it also shows a degree of sophistication that we are making our own opinions without particular regaurd to what the government, or our peers for that matter, tell us. this in contrast with the mass protest of vietnam, and the mass enlistments of WWII. in both cases, in my opinion, young people were cought up by the popular movement and operating more on the opinion of the majority than their own.

this is pretty much what we just covered, not gonna belabor it....

I do not claim to have any idea what Bushes motivations for the war are. My feeling though is that he is sincerly trying to do what is right for the world. Whether what has been done is a good thing or not remains to be seen. in my opinion Sadam should have been removed in the first gulf war. it had to be done, I\'m just not sure it was done right.

and to this statement, i tip my hat to you sir....i agree almost 100%....and i will still fight and die for my country because, i feel ITS THE RIGHT THING TO DO...the thing that bothers me the most here is that we will have to endure more 9-11 scenarios before its all said and done, the odds state so, and itll only be then that we get off our asses and become the country we should have been all along....UNITED states.....as for the rest of my brethren the world over.....think what you like of me and us, but dont let it color your true values, or your statements just because of some petty animosities....

to be continued, im sure...

Doc Brass...

[addsig]




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Re: On behalf of Orpheus
Posted by matt on Tue Jan 6th at 7:07pm 2004


Couldn't he of just said "Goodbye everyone, love you all!!!" Long posts bug me. Because I can't read. [addsig]



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Re: On behalf of Orpheus
Posted by Dr Brasso on Tue Jan 6th at 7:09pm 2004


at the risk of sounding flippant, it sounds like a personal problem to me matt...

Doc Brass...

may i suggest, the "Evelyn Woodhead Sped Reddin' Course"?? (only the old farts will get that one... )

[addsig]




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Re: On behalf of Orpheus
Posted by Mr.Ben on Tue Jan 6th at 7:10pm 2004


And i just wrote a multi manager tutorial, oh well. People come and go.

[addsig]




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Re: On behalf of Orpheus
Posted by Dr Brasso on Tue Jan 6th at 7:13pm 2004


....send it to him ben, itd be a nice gesture...

Doc Brass...

[addsig]




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Re: On behalf of Orpheus
Posted by Wild Card on Tue Jan 6th at 7:36pm 2004


? posted by Mr.Ben

And i just wrote a multi manager tutorial, oh well. People come and go.

I did when Snarkpit was in version 3 but even then he never got it.

[addsig]




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Re: On behalf of Orpheus
Posted by Dr Brasso on Tue Jan 6th at 7:42pm 2004


cmon TB, where are ya??....we were having a nice constructive conversation here....

Doc Brass...

[addsig]




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Re: On behalf of Orpheus
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Tue Jan 6th at 8:20pm 2004


I am for the most part inclined to agree with you, which is why I have been slow to respond. it is very possible that the diseperate opinions I see in my peers are simply the result of a lack of any unifying motivation. however, it seems quite depressing to me that we need an enemy to push us together into a cohesive group. A part of me wants to assume that young people today are somehow better equiped to deal with the world and from their own opinions, but I see that that is an untenable position. after all, what makes us different from our parents? every generation probably considers themselves to be special and different.

it seems to me that politics are becoming more and more polarized. everyone is sure that the other side is dstroying the country. I expect that we will blithly contunue on a fragmented course untill the inevitable happens: a nuclear detonation in an american city. Then maybe somthing will happen akin to the unifying affects of WWII, but IMO not untell then.





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Re: On behalf of Orpheus
Posted by scary_jeff on Tue Jan 6th at 10:33pm 2004


TB... what an optimist!

? quote:
he was hated because he was misunderstood


Well I for one will totally disagree with this. Anybody who hated Orph is an idiot. I had my fair share of flame wars with Orph but I think we could both tell that the other could chuckle at the whole thing in the end - to save any hard feelings would have been moronic to say the least. With Doc and Orph I think it got personal and this to me would seem to be the main reason for Orph leaving.




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Re: On behalf of Orpheus
Posted by Dr Brasso on Tue Jan 6th at 11:20pm 2004


he's meaning Docrock....just to clarify, (i think) but it was more like the "throw yer hands up in the air" point...what are you gonna do after it leaves the realm of true discussion?....hmm

? posted by scary_jeff

Anybody who hated Orph is an idiot. no truer words have been spoken in this thread...

Doc Brass....

[addsig]




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Re: On behalf of Orpheus
Posted by fishy on Tue Jan 6th at 11:42pm 2004


? posted by Gorbachev
Wow, I go to work for a few days straight, come back and I have no clue what's been happening.

go to work stoned then





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Re: On behalf of Orpheus
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Wed Jan 7th at 12:55am 2004


? posted by fishy
? posted by Gorbachev
Wow, I go to work for a few days straight, come back and I have no clue what's been happening.

go to work stoned then

Then either you won't have to worry about going back to work or you won't care anymore what happens outside of getting more Cheetos





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Re: On behalf of Orpheus
Posted by Gwil on Wed Jan 7th at 1:14am 2004


Going to work stoned is a bad idea. BAD IDEA KIDS.

[addsig]




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Re: On behalf of Orpheus
Posted by Cassius on Wed Jan 7th at 1:24am 2004


? posted by Tracer Bullet

it seems to me that politics are becoming more and more polarized. everyone is sure that the other side is dstroying the country.

Every human being is eternally bound to the tendancy to polarize. Polarization, judgement, is the ability of the human mind to take things that are many and confusing to it and bind them under one notion/emotion, rather than being overloaded with specifics. Defining two things as opposites is not a sin.






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