What does a man do when he looks in the distance? He squints. Perception is limited, and all we know is what we have percieved. When we learn something, when we see something, smell, taste, touch, our mental structure is evolved so that we immediately define and judge what we experience - grass is green, fire hurts to touch, etc. What we have experienced dictates what we will experience - every time you drop something, it will fall to the floor, and every morning, the sun will rise. Maybe it's possible that these things might fail to happen, that they might inexplicably change, but all we can do is assume that they won't, all we can do is have faith that the sun will rise and that the grass won't turn purple on us. No matter how many times we doubt and no matter how well we recognize our 'lens', our questions will still be inside that lens; it's impossible to know yourself and be yourself at the same time.

But I'm afraid I digress a bit from the topic of Orph

much like christopher columbus saying the world isnt "flat".....now thats balls....

Doc Brass...

well, thank you for the history lesson there monqui....but i think you missed the hint of sarcasm; seems that was a big beef of Orphs too, not reading the inflections in the words, which is very hard to do unless you have a flair for it....... and yes, most of that i was already aware of....(paid attention in history class, my teacher was a stone fox...

edit>>> and to clarify, if i must, i was refering to it "taking balls" to actually sail into the unknown...hell, i rode submarines for 8 years man, and it was still quite a friggin rush the day i got out....

Doc Brass...

actually, he was the first to identify the new world of North and South America as separate from Asia. columbus thought he had reached Asia till he died....no one new better....first trip, amazon river mouth, second trip, found and established it as the New World....

Doc Brass..

I think that's much closer to what I was talking about the whole time, though I didn't directly touch on the point. Faith or belief is the higher level or perfection of judgement - and not just in the religious sense. Nobody knows that the sun will rise the next morning, but nobody wonders about it, either. It's something without a word or a noncontradictory definition - it's knowing without knowledge.

wow.....i musta pissed at least one of you folks off with this thread....the ass dropped out of my rating by a ton.... touchy f**kers...

and please...not religion too....***reaches for aspirin..

Doc Brass...

Proof of something replaces the need of faith in it.

Therefore, proof of God would make (religous) faith pointless, but that is the one thing that many religions say is needed (Especially Christianity). I don't think it is possible to prove God with Facts.

And if you think about it, very little can actually be proven anyway, I mean, take Tectonics, the result of something isn't proof of how it happened, we have a theory of how it happened but until technology allows us to investigate further, it remains a theory. Many Facts are facts until a better one comes along, which in essence, makes them theorys NOT facts.