Source SDK Update
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Re: Source SDK Update
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Mon Nov 12th at 9:47pm 2007


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I know there are only 6 map to choose from, but... why make cheap crap just to have something new? It makes me want to make something just slightly above mediocre just because the standards have been lowered. I don't have to try too hard.

It's because the general 'online community' is completely retarded in every way. If you've ever played an MMO for a decent amount of time you'd have a crystal clear window into the problem.

The very people who complain about a lack of Valve maps have no problem playing crappy killboxes and rats knockoffs, choking good and near-valve quality custom maps out of the 'market', all the while still complaining that there aren't enough good maps. It doesn't really matter cause in the end all the servers that run only or mostly custom maps will be empty and the 24/7 2fort+whatever fun map tf2 gets will be packed, and Valve will realise all the hard work and design they put into Hydro was a waste when all they had to do is make a big empty box with random floating platforms to entertain the masses.

Just look at the Halo trilogy's level design, both sp and mp, and then look at its huge popularity and how it has become a 'cultural phenomenon' according to the New York Times or whatever, and you will see the dire straits level design is in.





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Re: Source SDK Update
Posted by FatStrings on Tue Nov 13th at 4:44am 2007


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the only games my sdk will work for are the orange box games now

add '-engine ep1' to the launch options and you'll be able to map for the 'old' source games.


thanks dude




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Re: Source SDK Update
Posted by smackintosh on Tue Nov 13th at 5:46am 2007


I figured out a good strategy to TF2 mapping.
You only really have to design half the map really well and the mirror the bastard
for Red and Blue sides. I guess that's obvious, but it makes me feel better. I think
I'll take any Hl2dm maps I was working on and re-tool them for TF2.

Killbox maps are a blight, but they really work even worse for a team-based game.
I still can't understand seeing full servers with Killbox Billy's House of Crappy 5-minute maps. I'd sooner swallow a running drill than play them, but to each his own.

...and thanks for the tip, Omega.



don't sweat the petty stuff,just pet the sweaty stuff.



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Re: Source SDK Update
Posted by Rumple on Tue Nov 13th at 12:02pm 2007


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I figured out a good strategy to TF2 mapping.
You only really have to design half the map really well and the mirror the bastard for Red and Blue sides.


Maybe for CTF maps, wouldn't work for CP IMO.



<A HREF="http://rumple.biz" TARGET="_blank">SourDough2.0</A> - With Strawberry Jam



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Re: Source SDK Update
Posted by smackintosh on Tue Nov 13th at 5:07pm 2007


Actually, I've seen a few CP maps "mirrored" like that.
At least two Valve maps are.



don't sweat the petty stuff,just pet the sweaty stuff.



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Re: Source SDK Update
Posted by Cash Car Star on Thu Nov 15th at 1:18am 2007


Oh god, anyone remember ns_siege? This is the mod that went out of its way to find the best and only the best mappers, and then this monstrosity showed up...

Seriously, I've seen amazing mappers sidelined time and time again. Custom map servers receive no decent play, no decent traffic. Idiots just want a stupid map and the hardcore want only a small handful of legitimate maps that they have memorized down to the finest detail.

I used to think that half the problem was simply the logistics of getting the players the custom content they needed to play, but even with awesome delivery mechanisms like Steam and the prevalence of high-speed internet, it's just not happening.




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Re: Source SDK Update
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Thu Nov 15th at 1:42am 2007


oh I remember ns_siege, the fps equivalent of Starcraft's $$$BIG GAME HUNTERS$$$ money maps. Pretty painful, but I'd probably rather play that than Combat, as at least the server would cycle back to ns classic maps eventually :/

I wish I had been part of the Quake 1 and 2 communities, cause then I'd know if this has always been the case or if it was a slide into stupidity as online gaming became more popular.





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Re: Source SDK Update
Posted by Le Chief on Thu Nov 15th at 2:03am 2007


In hammer 3.5, press ctrl shift g. I never knew that.





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Re: Source SDK Update
Posted by omegaslayer on Thu Nov 15th at 6:51am 2007


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I used to think that half the problem was simply the logistics of getting the players the custom content they needed to play, but even with awesome delivery mechanisms like Steam and the prevalence of high-speed internet, it's just not happening.

Fine words were said here.






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Re: Source SDK Update
Posted by Cash Car Star on Thu Nov 15th at 10:48am 2007


I stopped playing NS before combat went live. I can't imagine it was much fun. I was kind of burnt out on HL as a whole when that was going down.



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Re: Source SDK Update
Posted by Gwil on Thu Nov 15th at 6:37pm 2007


I was dismayed to see yesterday my brother in law using my PC to play HL2DM - a ray of hope initially, as he loves his Halo (most overrated game EVAR!) and insists that FPS are "better to play" on consoles.

After initial erring on HL2DM he told me of a map he was really enjoying. It was a giant box criss crossed by dev texture platforms and sv_gravity set to some floaty value. Sigh.

As regards to Quake, I used tro play some real turd maps for Action Q2 when it was in its heyday. Not enough to make a judgement on the scene as a whole, as I was still saddled with a 56k internal.




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Re: Source SDK Update
Posted by RedWood on Thu Nov 15th at 9:55pm 2007


My theory is that the player movement is to fast in HL2DM. When your in a wide open area it's much easer to get a bead on someone. and when you turn down the gravity the game just plays so much smother. Lockdown just fells so cluster f**ked. Half the time when you die you never sew it coming.


Reality has become a commodity.



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Re: Source SDK Update
Posted by Naklajat on Thu Nov 15th at 10:32pm 2007


I blame the combination of slow-ish run (jog) speed and sprint. Sprint pisses me off. That's been my main gripe with HL2DM since it came out.

As for the other thing, just look at any FPS with SDK tools available, they're all afflicted with killbox maps. Just means you've gotta be designing levels for the love of level design. 'Killbox mappers' don't generally have much of a chance at getting level design jobs in the games industry, mapping to them is just an extension of playing the game. And the truth is people play these maps and enjoy themselves. People also sit at their computers typing /dance and other such time wasting crap on MMO games for hours, some people are just easily amused I guess. ", he says hypocritically, whilst posting on an internet forum.



=o



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Re: Source SDK Update
Posted by RedWood on Thu Nov 15th at 11:06pm 2007


I agree that the sprint is the problem, but as far as my experience goes, the HL2DM killbox experience is by fare the worst. In Counter Strike Source the closest thing to a killbox is snow, snow arena or some other crappy variant of that. snow sucks, but it is by no means a killbox. It has cover, and a attempt at a lay out.


Reality has become a commodity.



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Re: Source SDK Update
Posted by reaper47 on Fri Nov 16th at 9:30am 2007


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I blame the combination of slow-ish run (jog) speed and sprint. Sprint pisses me off. That's been my main gripe with HL2DM since it came out.


I absolutely agree. Sprint is an euphemism for stamina bar. One keyboard key wasted. Based on my trivia knowledge, HL2DM was made by a single guy at Valve in his free time. I guess if HL2DM ever went through a proper cabal process (or whatever they call those meetings), they would have removed sprint and reduced the weapon load at spawn. Not even CSS has sprint.

Imagine spawning with only a (more accurate) pistol and gravgun, instead of the Rambo-style all-purpose weaponry and a constant, faster speed. It would play so much better.






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Re: Source SDK Update
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Sat Nov 17th at 5:08am 2007


...and here I thought HL2DM was clearly the weapons, movement, and combat from HL2 only on a server with 31 of your closest friends, just like HLDM, and Q2DM, and Q1DM, and so on and so forth. I can't believe that 'single guy' had the nerve to do such a horrible thing. That 'single guy' must have done something right since HL2DM is the codebase for multiplayer mods in Source...

I know I've said this before, but the reason for starting with all those weapons is balance. The gravgun is too powerful to spawn with, but it is a required tool for movement through the map and for preserving an equal playing field (imagine the nightmare of people with gravguns being able to block off paths people without gravguns need to use to succeed/have fun). The SMG is not as powerful as the gravgun, so there'd be little point in picking it up. It also has the same range as the gravgun, which makes it somewhat redundant (spread is so wide that it is useless at range, hitting somebody with a prop with the gravgun at range is mostly pure luck). It would essentially be the booby prize like those 17 bullet pistol clips in HLDM. However, the gravgun's power can be random, depending on the size of the area you are in and the number of available props nearby. So you have one weapon that is not very powerful but is predictable in performance and another weapon that is very powerful but random in its combat usefulness (especially immediately after a respawn). Put them together and you make both weapons better. Like chocolate and peanut butter!





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Re: Source SDK Update
Posted by reaper47 on Sat Nov 17th at 1:27pm 2007


Gravgun is essential, yes, and one can argue about the SMG, but TWO handgrenades? Cooked they are almost more useful than an SMG grenade and those things are deadly.





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Re: Source SDK Update
Posted by thehalflifedude on Sat Nov 17th at 6:12pm 2007


? quoting reaper47
Gravgun is essential, yes, and one can argue about the SMG, but TWO handgrenades? Cooked they are almost more useful than an SMG grenade and those things are deadly.

ROPER47! I MISSED YEH BUDDEH!








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