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Creation of the universe
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 Re: Creation of the universe
Posted by omegaslayer on Tue Dec 18th at 5:53am 2007

? quote:
Its impossible for energy to be created or be created by anything under any circumstances, there for energy shouldn't exist, but it does. So than, how did it get here?


Arron.... How can I really put this.... First off lets send you one of the leading theories of our century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstring_theory

Really wikipedia is only scratching the surface of what string theory is, and it condenses it into a 'readers digest' version for someone without the physics/chemistry background that you lack to understand. Some day when you go to school or a university beyond high school you'll learn that wikipedia is one of the WORST places to site your information, because frankly at its core is information that anyone can alter.

Anyways back to the topic at hand: Lets just say that string theory is our leading theory for creation/big bang. In order for it to work we need 26 extra dimensions! Our minds cant even comprehend anything above 3 let alone 4. Point is I think our primitive human brain can't comprehend creation, the sheer notion of infinity is daunting ex: the universe is infinitely long, but not infinitely big, it loops back upon itself.... see what I mean?

Point is arron, I really don't think your statement is really based in reality.... in fact its not based on anything.


Posting And You



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 Re: Creation of the universe
Posted by RedWood on Tue Dec 18th at 7:36am 2007

? quote:
Anyways back to the topic at hand: Lets just say that string theory is our leading theory for creation/big bang. In order for it to work we need 26 extra dimensions! Our minds cant even comprehend anything above 3 let alone 4.
Has anyone ever tryed to describe extra dimensions in a tangible form? Is it a uncomprehendable shape or is it simply a 26 (i thought it was 11) axis system which takes some crazy math to work.


Reality has become a commodity.



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 Re: Creation of the universe
Posted by Crono on Tue Dec 18th at 7:43am 2007

It depends on who you talk to.


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: Creation of the universe
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Dec 18th at 9:37am 2007

? quoting RedWood
Has anyone ever tryed to describe extra dimensions in a tangible form? .

Hell, I cannot convince anyone here that "Dark" is as fast, or at least as fast as "Light", and thats something we all can see. I doubt very,very much anyone here can grasp something as unseen as other dimensions.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Creation of the universe
Posted by Crono on Tue Dec 18th at 9:39am 2007

Oh, not that s**t again. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif">


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: Creation of the universe
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Dec 18th at 9:45am 2007

See? If this sites most educated dumb person cannot grasp it, how much of a chance do the rest of you have?

Dark may be the absence of something tangible, but it still exists and therefore is measurable in its non-being.

I have been here God knows how long, and have read some pretty far fetched things come out of you kiddies, and the theory that dark isn't fast is not nearly as "out there" and most of them.

If someone as uneducated as myself can imagine dark racing up behind light in a race surely you brainy half twits can too.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Creation of the universe
Posted by Crono on Tue Dec 18th at 12:09pm 2007

If darkness is independent of light, as you are implying it is, how do you measure it? It has to be made up of some sort of particle, since you keep insisting it has some sort of speed comparable to light. Oh yeah, I want to know what spectrum these particles are in too, for instance light is part of the electromagnetic spectrum.

You answer all of those things with convincing reasoning and I'll let it go.


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: Creation of the universe
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Dec 18th at 1:41pm 2007

? quoting Crono
Oh fine, I was going to tell you the reason why it does that, but never mind now. It's all important and everything too.

Adam, you seem to be under some impression that having a definition is a must. Sadly, that may be so, but just because there may, or may not be one doesn't mean that that is the most important thing. I'd imagine that the things in the universe that none of us understand would fill 1,000,000's of forums galaxy wide.

Anywho, if I (or you for that matter) were capable of proving that dark is unmeasurable and has no movement neither of us would be a member of a gaming forum.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - <----- You see that dotted line? If the lines were pulses, and the gaps were darkness moving in a straight line, WOULD THE LIGHT CATCH UP TO EACH OTHER AND FILL IN THE SPACES?????

Dark moves... PERIOD!





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Creation of the universe
Posted by Riven on Tue Dec 18th at 6:31pm 2007

? quoting RedWood

Has anyone ever tryed to describe extra dimensions in a tangible form? Is it a uncomprehendable shape or is it simply a 26 (i thought it was 11) axis system which takes some crazy math to work.

I don't know about 26 dimensions, but this site makes a good attempt with it's flash presentation: Imagining the tenth Dimension. (56k user warning!) I don't know if this theory ties in with the overall String Theory. I'm not totally familiar with that one, but I have read a little about it.




Blog: www.playingarchitecture.net
LinkedIn: Eric Lancon
Twitter:@Riven202



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 Re: Creation of the universe
Posted by Crono on Tue Dec 18th at 8:55pm 2007

Orpheus, this is what you get for that response: you really deserve this.


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: Creation of the universe
Posted by omegaslayer on Tue Dec 18th at 8:58pm 2007

Orph-

You want to make a hole in the ground. Well you take dirt out to make the hole right? You just can't put a void in the ground, because void is intangible.


Redwood-

Sorry that was a misprint, 26 is merely the... how can I describe it...the "power" of the number of dimension. Aka: in binary we say 2n is 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 128, etc... So when we say 4 in base 10 number system in binary it means 22. Kinda get what im speaking of.

Food for thought: Just look at how we count....1...2..3..4...5..6...7...8..9...10...
What defined the number system to add a second digit when we reached the number amount of 10? The number of our fingers was. Is this the most logical thing base to describe our universe?


Posting And You



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 Re: Creation of the universe
Posted by Crono on Tue Dec 18th at 9:10pm 2007

No, it's a pretty stupid thing to do.

However, regardless of what main base system you choose for your mathematics, you could always be wrong. I mean, it's better than they chose base 10 rather than base 20, right? Base 10 is easier to conceptualize in most instances, at least for people.

All counting systems have number units, or placements, though. (Like the ones, tens, hundreds, thousands, etc, place)

By the way, your listing of binary numbers is not binary, it's the decimal representation there of. In binary there is nothing higher than 1 in single units, just like in decimal there's nothing higher than 9.

4 = 22 is decimal, in binary it's 100. It's also important to note that not all binary numbers can be expressed in powers of two in decimal, only the increasing placements.

If you think this conversion crap is interesting at all you should look at number theory ... it's not a walk in the park, but it's built on using multiple number systems and those systems should become rather arbitrary.


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: Creation of the universe
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Dec 18th at 9:21pm 2007

Adam I am just giving you a hard time because its fun. However, I do believe that we (humans) are not at a stage of development to positively state that darkness has no motion.

I do believe that it is possible that we simply cannot prove it one way or the other.

In fact, who's to say that darkness doesn't have a power source, that is impossible to determine without further scientific advances?

Case in point... I imagine that you Adam can name a dozen things now proven, that were impossible 100 short years ago.. And prolly a 1,000 things a millennia before that.

Anywho, I am convinced that something, SOMETHING limits light to 186,000 miles a second and that something is the resistance darkness imposes upon it.

If darkness was the total absence of anything, light could move unimpeded and who knows how fast it could travel.

Considering a simple thing like extreme cold can speed up electricity. Perhaps darkness has a similar effect/limiting factor.

And as I said, I just love ragging on you. Its even easier than doing it to Doc Rock... Only, you're smart and he isn't all that bright.. Two sides of the same coin so to speak.

Darkness moves! Period! Even if its only to move out of the path of light.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Creation of the universe
Posted by French Toast on Tue Dec 18th at 9:21pm 2007

...you guys lost me...



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 Re: Creation of the universe
Posted by RedWood on Tue Dec 18th at 9:40pm 2007

? quote:
Adam I am just giving you a hard time because its fun. However, I do believe that we (humans) are not at a stage of development to positively state that darkness has no motion.
I do believe that it is possible that we simply cannot prove it one way or the other.
In fact, who's to say that darkness doesn't have a power source, that is impossible to determine without further scientific advances?
Case in point... I imagine that you Adam can name a dozen things now proven, that were impossible 100 short years ago.. And prolly a 1,000 things a millennia before that.
Anywho, I am convinced that something, SOMETHING limits light to 186,000 miles a second and that something is the resistance darkness imposes upon it.
If darkness was the total absence of anything, light could move unimpeded and who knows how fast it could travel.
Considering a simple thing like extreme cold can speed up electricity. Perhaps darkness has a similar effect/limiting factor.
And as I said, I just love ragging on you. Its even easier than doing it to Doc Rock... Only, you're smart and he isn't all that bright.. Two sides of the same coin so to speak.
Darkness moves! Period! Even if its only to move out of the path of light.
I agree that darkness as a idea travels at the speed of light but i don't think it is any form of energy/mater.
I don't know what pushes light but in a vacuum i don't think it's being impeded by anything but gravity.


Reality has become a commodity.



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 Re: Creation of the universe
Posted by Bewbies on Tue Dec 18th at 9:48pm 2007

I don't have a degree in physics, (or a degree in anything lol), but light has a speed and direction.. Isn't this velocity? That said, I'd imagine that whatever dictates the light's direction would also dictate the light's speed. (Even if it does remain constant.) What if light is projected differently in different parts of the cosmos? Could there could be stars out there that emit light that's slower? More dense? Just some thoughts.

And orph, a void doesn't exist.. It's a representation of non-existence that we can only observe through the contrast of something that actually does exist. For example, the spaces in your dotted lines wouldn't even be observed if not for the existence of the dotted lines. Through existence, we can observe non-existence. That's duality for you.

Oh, and hi. =D I'm actually dreaming up a very sci-fi explanation for the physics of the universe.. heh. Woooo!




the players tried to take the field
the marching band refused to yield



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 Re: Creation of the universe
Posted by fishy on Tue Dec 18th at 10:11pm 2007

like cold doesn't exist, it's only the lack of heat


i eat paint



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 Re: Creation of the universe
Posted by Crono on Tue Dec 18th at 10:46pm 2007

Orph, I know, do you honestly think I'm oblivious to your intentions? This is why you got face palmed. If I honestly thought you were really trying to convince me there'd be a more concerned tone in my responses.

Light is a special case, guys. It doesn't have mass at rest which allows it to go the speed it does. In a vacuum light goes a constant speed (go look it up, I don't remember it right now) and only slows down (actually slows down, not perceived slow down) when it goes though other things, like glass or something.

The act of emitting light produces the corresponding velocity, as it's a byproduct of other reactions and produces other properties of the light because of it (like the wavelength ... or color). You can look all of this up.

Like fishy said, cold is a label for perceived low levels of heat. Just like dark is a label for perceived low levels of light. These things mean absolutely nothing by themselves because they aren't physical things. A photon physically exists, there isn't any particle that produces darkness ... like the universe would be really bright (to us) if it wasn't for those damn darkons. Heat is the same sort of thing (though that is not a seperate particle, but rather a measurement in vibration of the particles) As far as I know, we can't exactly nail down all the aspects of heat, sort of like we can't nail down all the aspects of gravity (primarily why it effects things)


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: Creation of the universe
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Dec 18th at 11:05pm 2007

Darkness, is the absence of light. Who's to say, that there is not a light, that is unseen?

No, I don't mean light that our eyes, or machinery cannot detect. I mean light that is black, hence darkness?

Taking that one step further, if light, seeable light were focused in a single direction and pulsed, it would form gaps.

Taking that one step further, this mythical dark-light isn't going anyplace before the seen light passes and is pushed and/or pulled along with it.

The darkness would be moving.

Hmm, you know, the hard thing about talking s**t is when you cannot even form sentences that form the same paths you want the light to travel upon. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/sad.gif">

Anywho, just because dark is consisted of things non-detectable doesn't in and of itself prove that its not there.

In the end one must ask oneself, if dark is composed of things unseen, how come there is so much of it AND in its non seeing nature, we detect it as being black?

Why does something thats not supposed to be composed of any elements have a color for that matter?

*sighs*

I am convinced. One day I will be vindicated and the majority of you will be sorry. Well, you'll know and sorry or not that will have to be enough cause I'll know you know. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Creation of the universe
Posted by Crono on Wed Dec 19th at 12:44am 2007

Look, you're old enough that you can go and look at REAL data and explanations instead of this made up s**t. You have no evidence or reason to believe that dark is some sort of seperate particle or opposite particle of light. Where as, the opposite argument has plenty of evidence and reliability testing.

Pick up a junior high science book sometime, everything will be explained in the simplest of terms.


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.




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