Adam, whether what I say pans out or not is irrelevant as far as this discussion goes if all you have to back your side up is some textbooks.
I'd wager that there are a s**tload of books on every sort of nonsense topic imaginable.
If ultimately it is in fact proven that dark is stationary it won't be within our life times.
I'm sorry if my reasoning offends your.... obtuse thinking, but its not about to change just because you're being difficult.
Sadly, its not my lack of faith in my belief system but my inability to articulate sufficiently well to sound convincing...
The only thing that bothers me has nothing to do with you, at least not directly. It bothers me immensely that I cannot seem to ever get my thinking down in text form. 
You on the other had can spout off some pretty convincing bulls**t. It simply rolls off your fingertips, AND I don't doubt for a moment that you believe most of what you type.
No, I don't believe your wrong, you just aren't completely right as often as you think. There is right, and there is dead right. Both are not always desirable.
I was wound up trying to explain to someone why the study of History is important, but the only counter they had was "but it's finished". Regardless of studying the subject for 6 years so far in total, I was "way off" and "wrong"...
I've never gotten and feeling of superiority from you Adam...
*gasps*
Did I say that out loud?
/me giggles.
Seriously guys. When a topic comes up that I truly care about, you'll get an ear full. And, you'll be convinced, or at the very least, you'll be in a lesser position than you were when we began.
Gwil, I know there are books. AND I know that they are academically accepted. However what I said holds true in a sense. in times past there were academically accepted books that are laughable now.
As far as the dark thing goes. Who gives a rats ass. There is so much darkness out there that it couldn't possibly be worth anything so why get all worked up over whether its in motion or stationary.
In all seriousness, since you believe its full of nothing, you couldn't possibly convince anyone that it is not moving cause YOU cannot measure it. When you really think about it, I wasn't the one whom necessarily had to prove myself of anything.
I missed me too. " SRC="images/smiles/heee.gif">
In all seriousness, its not reasonable to shift the burden of proof onto someone just to win.
I agree that there is a possibility that Adam is correct. He thinks that I am incorrect, so the burden of proof lies squarely upon his shoulders.
I'll tell you one fact however. Dark may not move, but when you fall off the top bunk in the middle of the night, it hurts. " SRC="images/smiles/wtf.gif">
Sadly, or perhaps not so sad, this connection is but temporary and with a week or so, will be gone. And I do not foresee another connection until they finally get DSL out this far.
Night/night all.
We agree that our measurement of distance is a human construct, created to allow us some judgement of space.
We agree that the concept of 'time' is also a human construct, created to allow us some measurement of the rhythm of life.
We must also realize that the concepts of 'beginning' and 'ending' are no different - human constructs of language which allow us to quantify and measure these common phenomena in our world; the illusion of things starting stopping.
This language is a simple tool of measurement, is shallow, and should not be mistaken for the EVENT which we try to measure.
Look at even the simplest thing, a human birth. Where does that event begin exactly? When the child is birthed from it's mother? When it is a fetus in the womb? As a sperm fighting to reach the egg - is it not still beginning? And before that as two people bouncing around this world, still yet to meet.. is it not also beginning at that point?
Death is the same... has your life ended when your body no longer functions? Don't the actions of your life still resonate through the world through the people who knew you or the influences you had? This life is still traveling and living in some form. As you decompose and your minerals are absorbed by the earth, has your life ended, or is it still traveling through the plant life that its nutrients spawn?
My point is, with questions like these, you end up trapped, arguing about the flaws of the measuring tool - in this case, language. Language is a clunky, flawed system with which we (the experience itself, I may add....we are both the observer and the observed) attempt to translate and communicate our experience. You can no more succeed at that than you can bite your own teeth, or touch the tip of your right hand index finger, with the tip of your right hand index finger.
For those of you who like metaphysics, philosophy, relegion and discussions of this matter, I seriously urge you to look for some books, audio recordings, and video of the late, great Alan Watts. He is my favorite philosopher, and a great character from the 60's, 70's. (10 points to anyone who can find my alan watts quotes).
Here's a good video of his to start with.
part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aufuwMiKmE
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ8WeLrtFnY
If your reality is reliant on the existence of your concsiousness, and the existence of your concsiousness is reliant on reality, there doesn't exactly have to be 'birth' or 'death'. Solipsism sounds kind of unreasonable at first, but it's a valid outlook on life, to a degree. If you consider reality to only occur when observed, and don't believe in an afterlife, that would mean that there is no reality before or after your lifespan. I dunno where I'm going with this, though. Just turning my thoughts into words. =D
Candyman, candyman... Its:
If a bear s**ts in the woods, but no one is there to smell it, does it have odor? Lets try hard to get our euphemism's right shall we?
/runs
I vaguely remember a quantum-physics example that questioned whether the tree would have actually existed at all, never mind if it made a noise or not.
Or that may just have been my interpretation....
Isn't that reminiscent of "The cat in the box" thing?
Sounds like those academic types have a few screws loose when it comes to killing cats.
