Widely scorned groups of people tend to disdain the groups their society sees as even more ridiculous and contemptible than they are. Hence why rednecks hate black people. Hence why a circle of racist, homophobic hentai- and child pornography-saturated losers hate Scientologists.
Re: The Internets are Going to War
Posted by Fjorn on Thu Feb 14th at 9:22pm 2008
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Posted by Fjorn on Thu Feb 14th at 9:22pm 2008
A couple points:
Voting/non voting is not an issue here, as this isn't something that would be subjected to a vote, so I don't see your point about that...
Scientology has already had its website hacked multiple times by "Anonymous"
Other than that... I dunno... there are lots of cults out there that are just as bad as scientology, they just are far less in the public spotlight, and try to avoid deaths...
Voting/non voting is not an issue here, as this isn't something that would be subjected to a vote, so I don't see your point about that...
Scientology has already had its website hacked multiple times by "Anonymous"
Other than that... I dunno... there are lots of cults out there that are just as bad as scientology, they just are far less in the public spotlight, and try to avoid deaths...
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Re: The Internets are Going to War
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Thu Feb 14th at 10:59pm 2008
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Posted by Yak_Fighter on Thu Feb 14th at 10:59pm 2008
? quoting Fjorn
Voting/non voting is not an issue here, as this isn't something that would be subjected to a vote, so I don't see your point about that...
It's really easy. Imagine if all the effort put into stupid pointless s**t like ddos'ing a Scientology website, posting about cheap foreign children's cartoons, or playing video games etc etc was instead put into political action and trying to wrangle important issues like healthcare, the Iraq war, the US wealth gap, the environment, genocide, starvation and so on. Gwil would probably think the world would be a better place while people like me are just glad that even more idiots (various _chan posters) don't use their political power to help drive the world into the ground faster. 
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Re: The Internets are Going to War
Posted by Gwil on Thu Feb 14th at 11:29pm 2008
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Posted by Gwil on Thu Feb 14th at 11:29pm 2008
I don't think necessarily that think the world would be a better place, I believe in this country at least many many people would vote for the extreme right or radical religious parties, which might shock the governments and mainstream parties into reform.
Unfortunately for the US there is a 2 party system - we have it here also, but votes turning toward the BNP, UKIP, Muslim Alliance etc and having an impact are much more likely. However, people wont vote because they either feel disaffected or run their lives in a bubble of blissful ignorance.
Also, my "point" was actually saddled up with a couple of other things beside voting in elections. It has been read too literally. What I mean is that if people were more concerned about FOR INSTANCE where their meat came from, or, how their local authority wasted money on programme x/y/z, concerned on a scale they are about a 2 bit pseudo religions organisation, society might run a little better and you would have less people engaging with the "Church".
Unfortunately for the US there is a 2 party system - we have it here also, but votes turning toward the BNP, UKIP, Muslim Alliance etc and having an impact are much more likely. However, people wont vote because they either feel disaffected or run their lives in a bubble of blissful ignorance.
Also, my "point" was actually saddled up with a couple of other things beside voting in elections. It has been read too literally. What I mean is that if people were more concerned about FOR INSTANCE where their meat came from, or, how their local authority wasted money on programme x/y/z, concerned on a scale they are about a 2 bit pseudo religions organisation, society might run a little better and you would have less people engaging with the "Church".
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Re: The Internets are Going to War
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Thu Feb 14th at 11:35pm 2008
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Posted by Yak_Fighter on Thu Feb 14th at 11:35pm 2008
I love you Gwil 
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Re: The Internets are Going to War
Posted by Gwil on Thu Feb 14th at 11:43pm 2008
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Posted by Gwil on Thu Feb 14th at 11:43pm 2008
I try, but most of the time i'm just a bastard.
As an amusing side point, one of my fellow 'students' pointed out with glee the campaign by "Anonymous" on "teh internet!!11" - I took up the conversation later and tried to gauge his opinion on early years education and testing, amongst other things. He had a simple, recited opinion which was unable to be expanded upon. Yet Scientology there was much rage for.
What? WHY?! The only reason I expressed an opinion of support for their activities is that at least they are speaking out for something. Perhaps it is a little foolish to hope they will extend the same interest to other subjects..
As an amusing side point, one of my fellow 'students' pointed out with glee the campaign by "Anonymous" on "teh internet!!11" - I took up the conversation later and tried to gauge his opinion on early years education and testing, amongst other things. He had a simple, recited opinion which was unable to be expanded upon. Yet Scientology there was much rage for.
What? WHY?! The only reason I expressed an opinion of support for their activities is that at least they are speaking out for something. Perhaps it is a little foolish to hope they will extend the same interest to other subjects..
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Re: The Internets are Going to War
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Fri Feb 15th at 12:26am 2008
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Posted by Yak_Fighter on Fri Feb 15th at 12:26am 2008
Why should I care about national and world events and issues when I could be watching entertainment news about Britney Spears?!
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Re: The Internets are Going to War
Posted by Le Chief on Fri Feb 15th at 12:53am 2008
Oh boy..... If I had a dollar every time I heard her name...
Posted by Le Chief on Fri Feb 15th at 12:53am 2008
? quoting Yak_Fighter
I could be watching entertainment news about Britney Spears?!
Oh boy..... If I had a dollar every time I heard her name...
Re: The Internets are Going to War
Posted by Bewbies on Fri Feb 15th at 1:25am 2008
How many "self help book" authors enjoy a very nice set of tax exemptions because they're a "religion"? Even jews don't get the same taxbreak for their religious education costs.
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Posted by Bewbies on Fri Feb 15th at 1:25am 2008
I actually just flew back from socal, where I attended the Feb 10th Hollywood protest. It was quite successful, and worldwide protests had a total of at least 8,000 Anonymous members. The next demonstration will be on the ides of March, and is expected to be much, much bigger.
Huzzah.
? quote:
Scientology is a self help book, it tells people they can benefit from it in this life and they think it's too good to be true
How many "self help book" authors enjoy a very nice set of tax exemptions because they're a "religion"? Even jews don't get the same taxbreak for their religious education costs.
Just sayin.
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Re: The Internets are Going to War
Posted by mazemaster on Fri Feb 15th at 4:42am 2008
I don't think thats a fair comparison - early childhood education and testing is a difficult question that has many aspects and no perfect answers, whereas Scientology (while less significant) is pretty much bad nomatter how you look at it, from what I hear.
Posted by mazemaster on Fri Feb 15th at 4:42am 2008
? quote:
As an amusing side point, one of my fellow 'students' pointed out with glee the campaign by "Anonymous" on "teh internet!!11" - I took up the conversation later and tried to gauge his opinion on early years education and testing, amongst other things. He had a simple, recited opinion which was unable to be expanded upon. Yet Scientology there was much rage for.
I don't think thats a fair comparison - early childhood education and testing is a difficult question that has many aspects and no perfect answers, whereas Scientology (while less significant) is pretty much bad nomatter how you look at it, from what I hear.
Re: The Internets are Going to War
Posted by Gwil on Fri Feb 15th at 7:11am 2008
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Posted by Gwil on Fri Feb 15th at 7:11am 2008
SIGH, for INSTANCE again. Amongst other things. Crime, the environment and the nature of democracy were also discussed.
Remind me not to try and illustrate points on the internet ever again.
Remind me not to try and illustrate points on the internet ever again.
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Re: The Internets are Going to War
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Fri Feb 15th at 7:43am 2008
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Posted by Yak_Fighter on Fri Feb 15th at 7:43am 2008
There there Gwil, nobody reads what other people post anyway. I know I don't.
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Re: The Internets are Going to War
Posted by Gwil on Fri Feb 15th at 8:52am 2008
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Posted by Gwil on Fri Feb 15th at 8:52am 2008
Anyone else see the empty space above here? Weird, some kind of plane is attacking the forums.
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Re: The Internets are Going to War
Posted by mazemaster on Fri Feb 15th at 10:00am 2008
Those are even more complicated.
Crime: the intricate balance of preventing crime vs. limiting the power of the state; Whether we should focus on "cracking down" on crime or taking of macro-scale actions like education and economics action to deter crime, the debate over the efficacy of the criminal justice system, the moral questions over what is a crime, and how serious crimes are compared to one another, etc...
The Enviornment: what is really happening to the envionrnment, how serious it is, how big an effect humans are having vs. natural causes, what we can do about it, what goals should be set, how to go about achieving envionrnmental goals (incentive based? regulation based? etc), the use of various alternative means, and so forth...
The Nature of Democracy: This is a topic of epic proportions that could be reasonably debated from any number of angles.
So again, your comparison was not valid.
It's not often that you get an "easy target" like scientology.
Posted by mazemaster on Fri Feb 15th at 10:00am 2008
? quote:
Crime, the environment and the nature of democracy
Those are even more complicated.
Crime: the intricate balance of preventing crime vs. limiting the power of the state; Whether we should focus on "cracking down" on crime or taking of macro-scale actions like education and economics action to deter crime, the debate over the efficacy of the criminal justice system, the moral questions over what is a crime, and how serious crimes are compared to one another, etc...
The Enviornment: what is really happening to the envionrnment, how serious it is, how big an effect humans are having vs. natural causes, what we can do about it, what goals should be set, how to go about achieving envionrnmental goals (incentive based? regulation based? etc), the use of various alternative means, and so forth...
The Nature of Democracy: This is a topic of epic proportions that could be reasonably debated from any number of angles.
So again, your comparison was not valid.
It's not often that you get an "easy target" like scientology.
Re: The Internets are Going to War
Posted by Gwil on Fri Feb 15th at 10:17am 2008
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Posted by Gwil on Fri Feb 15th at 10:17am 2008
Never mind, you've missed my point which was that he was reciting words opined by the popular press - a recital, as it were. That was my irritation...
Also, you have to keep in mind these topics are/were being discussed as follows the trends in the UK at the time, ie we have the most tested children in Europe, we have the highest youth crime in Europe, the current government won only 22% of the vote, use of SUVs for short runs etc.
Either way, you missed the point, as I say. Hence I will avoid using text to describe arguments or points which clearly need more consideration and comprehension of the context in which they are made - even if it I thought one operative word made it pretty clear the idea that I was trying to convey.
The truly ridiculous thing about anyone subscribing to the anti-Scientology movement in the UK is that it really isn't that big an issue in terms of demographics in the USA, let alone Britain, where it is barely heard of outside of reactionary documentary makers and people with too much time and too little brain on their hands.
Also, you have to keep in mind these topics are/were being discussed as follows the trends in the UK at the time, ie we have the most tested children in Europe, we have the highest youth crime in Europe, the current government won only 22% of the vote, use of SUVs for short runs etc.
Either way, you missed the point, as I say. Hence I will avoid using text to describe arguments or points which clearly need more consideration and comprehension of the context in which they are made - even if it I thought one operative word made it pretty clear the idea that I was trying to convey.
The truly ridiculous thing about anyone subscribing to the anti-Scientology movement in the UK is that it really isn't that big an issue in terms of demographics in the USA, let alone Britain, where it is barely heard of outside of reactionary documentary makers and people with too much time and too little brain on their hands.
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Re: The Internets are Going to War
Posted by mazemaster on Fri Feb 15th at 10:42am 2008
Posted by mazemaster on Fri Feb 15th at 10:42am 2008
Ok. You are saying that the guy you talked to is silly for protesting scientology because there are more important things to do, and I am saying that its actually not that silly because the more important topics are more complicated and harder to take an exact stance on.
Re: The Internets are Going to War
Posted by Gwil on Fri Feb 15th at 10:49am 2008
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Posted by Gwil on Fri Feb 15th at 10:49am 2008
Well, no, I didn't say that at all... - the argument about "more important" (this is something you have read from it yourself) wasn't even tied to the person I am discussing - separate posts, separate situations.
I'm saying the guy is a fool for espousing the ill informed opinions of others on Scientology OR current affairs and dressing it up as some kind of valuable contribution or independent thought process.
What's really happening here is you're trying to trip up the arguments with an anally retentive - yet ironically - incorrect reading of what I am saying.
I'm saying the guy is a fool for espousing the ill informed opinions of others on Scientology OR current affairs and dressing it up as some kind of valuable contribution or independent thought process.
What's really happening here is you're trying to trip up the arguments with an anally retentive - yet ironically - incorrect reading of what I am saying.
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Re: The Internets are Going to War
Posted by Flynn on Sun Feb 24th at 11:23am 2008
Posted by Flynn on Sun Feb 24th at 11:23am 2008
? quoting reaper47
It's not coincidence they have the word "Church" in their title. The whole organization uses any loophole they can find to defend their (IMO) very illegal operations. Scientology is a dangerous and corrupt organization that doesn't deserve the status of a "religion".
What I like about this is that people stop falling for the "tolerance" trap.
I understand your point, Gwil. But I think Chantology has nothing to do with true political engagement. It's a troll party. Aimed at an organization that more than deserves the negative publicity. Worrying about where else these young people could have put their energy is useless IMO. The only alternative would be them sitting at home and spamming the IMDB boards or something.
What I like about this is that people stop falling for the "tolerance" trap.
I understand your point, Gwil. But I think Chantology has nothing to do with true political engagement. It's a troll party. Aimed at an organization that more than deserves the negative publicity. Worrying about where else these young people could have put their energy is useless IMO. The only alternative would be them sitting at home and spamming the IMDB boards or something.
O'RLY?
Or leading a life of crime and assaulting elderly people while getting drunk underage.
Just Kidding
Just Kidding
Just Kidding
Re: The Internets are Going to War
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Apr 18th at 7:29pm 2008
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Posted by Orpheus on Fri Apr 18th at 7:29pm 2008
? quoting Yak_Fighter
Thank god they don't, the last thing the world needs is more braindead idiots influencing the real world.
The world has already reached its saturation level for braindeads influencing things Joe. I doubt seriously there is much in the way of "Noticibility" that anyone can do thats drastically different from whats already happening.
Sadly what I have said all along gets proven each and every day. "If enough people do something wrong long enough, it becomes less wrong"
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