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Election 2008, USA
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 Re: Election 2008, USA
Posted by Cash Car Star on Sat Mar 22nd at 7:50pm 2008

I don't have the same political views I had eight years ago. I wouldn't expect McCain to either. Changing your opinion on a political matter should only be hypocritical if in doing so you break promises. McCain was not elected in 2000, therefore a change in his views does not make him a hypocrite, it makes him human. And old.

In particular, his views on the war as presented in that video might have to do with when he supported the war initially, he was expecting Bush to follow Colin Powell's precedent of overwhelming force to minimize casualties and maximize success. Instead, we got the Rumsfeld Doctrine, which is pretty much it's polar opposite... sending in the least number of troops possible with the least amount of equipment. And since success is not a binary, you end up with the kind of quagmire we have now.

I don't think McCain's views have changed for the better, but I see no reason to bring him down because he changed them. I'd rather focus on the fact that I just plain don't agree with them.



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 Re: Election 2008, USA
Posted by Cassius on Sat Mar 22nd at 9:21pm 2008

It becomes hypocritical when he makes pretensions to never changing his positions. Consider his line that anyone who says he supported amnesty "is a liar," and compare it with his earlier declaration that "amnesty has to be an important part" of immigration reform.



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 Re: Election 2008, USA
Posted by RedWood on Sat Mar 22nd at 9:35pm 2008

? quote:
I think you're right, Gwil, when you bring up the point that we've more or less made it our responsibility to make Iraq stable. I can agree with that as a point of principle, a moral abstraction. The problem with that stance is that, though it's easily arrived at, it opens two much more serious and complicated questions. How could we make Iraq stable? And even if we had definite plans for it, would we have the means to execute them?
My thought is that we don't know whether the United States staying in Iraq would improve a thing. We don't have the first idea about how to turn a mess of ethnic and religious factions into a safe and democratic nation. And where are the resources coming from? There's talk of cutting taxes now -- now, when the government has had to intervene in several instances to help the economy, when we're fighting an enormously costly war that's doing for us (and for Iraq) exactly nothing.
John McCain actually attracted me in 2000 for his integrity. By all indications, that race taught him that speaking frankly about what you believe, even if you aren't making the right sounds for voters, is no way to win an election.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioy90nF2anI&eurl=http://mccain.bravenewfilms.org/blog/574-john-mccain-vs-john-mccain
To any supporter of his, I say: enlist. If the army will take you, join it now. If it won't, go to aid Iraq in some civillian capacity. Drop whatever plans you may have for life in the States; go sustain a war demonstrably brought about by manipulation of the public. That's what a vote for John McCain asks of the military.
You and me have arrived at the same conclusion. I wish i was able to better express myself through my writing. Sometimes it barely seams coherent from my end. I'd hate to see what its like from the other side.


Reality has become a commodity.



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 Re: Election 2008, USA
Posted by Naklajat on Sun Mar 23rd at 4:00am 2008

I voted for Paul in the primary, he got less than 5% in Texas which is disheartening. I guess Austin isn't a good representation for the rest of Texas, Ron Paul is pretty popular here.

Clinton won Texas, and I almost wish I had voted for Obama. Almost. This is more because McCain will likely beat Clinton nationally than any preference I have for one or the other of the democrat candidates. I honestly can't see a lot of difference between them, Obama might help improve the USA's international image though. I'm not in any way against a female president, but I've seen enough sequels lately.

f**k Rush Limbaugh.

I see the distinction between Republican and Democrat as a 'divide and conquer' out of the Nazi propaganda playbook. Substance > lip service. I haven't seen a whole lot of substance from the presidential office in my lifetime, in my opinion. Wealthy businessmen have too much power in this country, I have no fair idea of how to fix that.


=o



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 Re: Election 2008, USA
Posted by CrazyIvanovich on Sun Mar 23rd at 2:14pm 2008

Over the last few years, I regret to say that I've lost nearly all political drive. It's not fun to argue about this stuff anymore, and I'm not sure if that's good or bad.

I still find it interesting, though, that politics and world affairs haven't really changed all that much. The unknown factor here is technology. Our parents and grandparents were most likely just as divided and outspoken as we are now, but they didn't have the infinite and universally multi-biased memory of the internet to continually show them how petty we all really are.

We know that information, and more precisely control of the distribution of it, can be proportioned to power. These days, with that control in the hands of ordinary citizens and with imaginations and passions running at fever pitch, it's difficult to say what sort of effect the internet will have on the world stage.

The McCain video is a pretty good example: with a library of footage of public officials, it's not difficult to make them look however you want them to look. Don't take this as an attack on the Dems, it's a universal thing that serves to whip both sides into an immediate frenzy. Right now, it's not as big a deal because the percentage of the voting population that relies on the internet is still small. As our children grow and come to rely more and more on globally networked technology, something interesting could actually happen.

This also isn't doom and gloom. :P I just thing it will be interesting.



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 Re: Election 2008, USA
Posted by Juim on Sun Mar 23rd at 3:10pm 2008

This is quite the thread. I am impressed with the amount of thought you younger fellows have put into this. My general opinions are as follows.

Obama. Not much experience, but ernest.
Clinton. Politics as usual, but if she were President, Bill would also be there, and I feel he was quite possibly the strongest leader we've had in the Whitehouse since Reagan. (Despite his personal leachery.)
McCain. Too old and quite possibly motivated by his days as a POW in Viet Nam with reguard to the war. I see this as a potential problem.

As for voting for third party candidates as a statement of protest, I feel like it's a vote thrown away. There are no viable third party runners, and so if 2 or 3 percent of the populace vote for someone who obviously has no chance of winning, it's a pointless statement(if there is such a thing). My wife voted for Perot in '96. I just laughed.

Iraq. That's a tough one. The Muslim religion is approximately 600 years behind Christianity in its evolution. What we are seeing is roughly the equivalent of a Spanish Inquisition I believe. Religious cleansing. People doing all sorts of horrible things in the name of a God is nothing new. No matter what the rest of the world does, the people there are going to have to evolve religiously and politically at the same pace as the rest of humanity. No amount of military intervention is going to speed things up. I believe it will be several decades before we see a change in this area.

Also, let's not forget that this is just as much about oil as it is about spreading Democracy. We need to ride out the Bush presidency and let the dust settle so we can start taking corrective measures, both economically, and internationally.

So who am I voting for?
I think I will vote Democratic party, no mattter who wins the nomination.





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 Re: Election 2008, USA
Posted by Orpheus on Thu Apr 17th at 6:49pm 2008

My view is simple, It cannot get worse than the mess Bush has created.

My vote is: Its time for the females to try their hand at it.

I refuse to vote for anyone Bush endorses: Translation, If Bush likes him, there has got to be something wrong with him. McClain= No!

Obama? If he could figure out that he is neither White, NOR Black but an American, then he would possibly have my vote. BUT as it stands, one week he is black and the next White. My head spins with his constant swaying from side to side.

So, we are left with the female persuasion. Let her have a chance. *shrugs* It cannot be any worse.





The best things in life, aren't things.




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