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Compilation Map 2008
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 Re: Compilation Map 2008
Posted by haymaker on Sun Oct 12th at 8:04pm 2008

Umm...probably too little too late, but I had a fit of sleeplessness, and concocted a submission.



Theme is an HL1 Black Mesa tram station.

It has also occurred to me that the trams could be used as connection between other maps, seeing as I have 2 tracks they could all be connected by train as well as other means. The other stations could just be holes in the tunnel wall where a blockage is or something. I've never tried to build a ridable train so I may be talking horse.

Map is about 85% atm, needs some light and shadow tweaking.



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 Re: Compilation Map 2008
Posted by Le Chief on Mon Oct 13th at 4:16am 2008

I'm liking it haymaker, that looks good, nice brush geometry, not sure about that ramp though, stairs would look much more realistic in this environment.

The idea about the trams as transportation around the map is cool, Subtransit from Half-life 1 is my favorite Half-life 1 map, not sure how effective that idea would be though. The trams would probably be automatically moving to prevent people exploiting them, but a drivable tram would add a fair amount of interactivity (more than the automatically moving tram) and is just another player controlled variable in the map.

Now can everybody stop adding more awesome maps, in my eyes, my entry is looking worse and worse smiley. I am feeling increasingly tempted to make some tweaks on it to improve it.


Aaron's Stuff



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 Re: Compilation Map 2008
Posted by G4MER on Mon Oct 13th at 7:55am 2008

Very nice Haymaker.. very nice indeed!



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 Re: Compilation Map 2008
Posted by haymaker on Mon Oct 13th at 5:50pm 2008

Thanks guys. I haven't done any work on func_tracktrains here yet so I won't comment in case they turn out to be impossible.

Aaron, you forget that you actually got your entry done on time when you berate yourself! If mine isn't too late to be considered for integration that's all I can hope for.



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 Re: Compilation Map 2008
Posted by Riven on Mon Oct 13th at 8:20pm 2008

Wow, really nice one haymaker; I look forward to putting this one in our compilation map!

For anyone not sure if they can submit an entry: THERE IS NO TIME LIMIT!

-I will accept any entries ANY time during the construction of this map.

So if you feel enticed to start a map now, go for it; we aren't going to reject it because it was late; you can't be late with this project!

@aaron_da_killa: I wouldn't mind you going in and touching-up your map if it wasn't in the competition. Because it was, it's better if it is left in its original state whenever I go around and add the plaques to each entry denoting which one was in the competition. If you change it, then it will not be the map that placed where it did. And if you re-touch it and it becomes radically different, then future players will ask why it placed where it did. They wouldn't know...

However, if you would like to touch-it-up, I can leave out it's entry status...



Quoting haymaker
"It has also occurred to me that the trams could be used as connection between other maps, seeing as I have 2 tracks they could all be connected by train as well as other means. The other stations could just be holes in the tunnel wall where a blockage is or something. I've never tried to build a ridable train so I may be talking horse."


This could be a viable idea. -And a good one! That might be pretty interesting to see trams starting and stopping automatically (with doors that open and close too) that will take pit stops at two different locations in the map. I remember seeing this done before in a map. Same effect, but I don't think it was as elaborate


Blog: www.playingarchitecture.net
LinkedIn: Eric Lancon
Twitter:@Riven202



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 Re: Compilation Map 2008
Posted by hlife_hotdog on Tue Oct 14th at 6:34am 2008

That looks awesome Haymaker! The tram idea can work, I think automatic trams would work and act like a subway station, they go back and forth between a few of the maps.



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 Re: Compilation Map 2008
Posted by haymaker on Tue Oct 14th at 7:05am 2008

Thamks guys

Check out a prebeta for the trams here:

http://www.snarkpit.net/index.php?s=forums&f=2&t=8449

One major stumbling block: Dynamic lighting is impossible on moving brush entities. The proper way to fix this is to use a model. I have found a way to fake it, it's not the best but it kinda works.

I'd say the station is 95%, tram layout will depend on the big picture

[ Edited by haymaker on Tue Oct 14th 2008 at 7:07am - total edits: 1]




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 Re: Compilation Map 2008
Posted by Riven on Wed Oct 15th at 6:41am 2008

Well, I found some more time to make a more in-depth diagram. This time, with actual level overviews! you'll find the names for some of them are rotated, this is to reflect how each map may need to be rotated in order to fit other maps more comfortably. Maps with their name reading top to bottom, are situated North to South. I incorporated a possible train path, however this doesn't mean it will look like that at all (if it looks like it has a hard corner in the diagram, doesn't mean it will have that in the final map...). This is simply an idea and not set in stone. Also, all exit arrows are shown for each map (even maps with multiple floors) So as you can see, we probably won't use all of them. I'll churn out a few more when I get the chance. Cheers for now...




Blog: www.playingarchitecture.net
LinkedIn: Eric Lancon
Twitter:@Riven202



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 Re: Compilation Map 2008
Posted by Le Chief on Wed Oct 15th at 9:26am 2008

Nice diagram Riven. Yes, the diagram is quite nice. One thing I notice is that every map has 2 entry/exits (except haymaker's map and your map), so this means that some maps have extra spots where additional entry/exit points could be made. Maybe if we used these potential exit/entry pathways it would give the players more paths to venture down and add extra flow and give the player more options and such, thing is, I don't know if that's something we want in this type of map, just thought I would mention that anyway.

Quoting Riven
@aaron_da_killa: I wouldn't mind you going in and touching-up your map if it wasn't in the competition. Because it was, it's better if it is left in its original state whenever I go around and add the plaques to each entry denoting which one was in the competition. If you change it, then it will not be the map that placed where it did. And if you re-touch it and it becomes radically different, then future players will ask why it placed where it did. They wouldn't know...

However, if you would like to touch-it-up, I can leave out it's entry status...


Hmm that's true. I think I'll pass on retouching up the map, but I am seriously disliking some aspects of the map.


Aaron's Stuff



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 Re: Compilation Map 2008
Posted by G4MER on Wed Oct 15th at 11:04am 2008

Well I don't really like that set up.. but its not up to me.. It does not make sense.. and does not really link like minded areas to one another.



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 Re: Compilation Map 2008
Posted by haymaker on Wed Oct 15th at 2:13pm 2008

waa, can't see the image

actually I did put another entrance to my map, but I don't care if it has to go for efficiency



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 Re: Compilation Map 2008
Posted by Riven on Fri Oct 17th at 3:55am 2008

Quoting haymaker
waa, can't see the image

actually I did put another entrance to my map, but I don't care if it has to go for efficiency


Another entrance? -noted. Hmm, can't see the image? If you want, you can view the direct link of that last layout here: Level Layout 2

As for a new one, I did it yesterday afternoon (just didn't have time to post it then). Check at the bottom of this post to allow me to explain myself this time :P

Here ya go: Level Layout 3:



Direct link to image: Level_Layout3

Explanation:
Alright, so yea, I took Muhnay's advice here and began to think about coherent spaces, and like-minded connections to common themes or designs. For example, immediately I noticed RedWood's docking map had that sewer tunnel exit and that could possible link up with hotdog's 2nd entry 'cave' map, so I connected those.
The problem lies in the fact that there simply isn't enough common points to links maps with, and so no matter how you arrange them (I think) you are going to end up with an odd connection somewhere (which may not be a bad thing actually. Can really surprise people as they explore the map).

Anyhow, I kept the train, as I think this will provide good gameplay potential. Because of that, I neglected to outfit the map with any teleporters (-as was mentioned by aaron_da_killa). With the train as a primary mode of transportation from one part of a map to another, teleporters would allow 'the other guy' not on the train a chance to outwit anyone riding the train, and thus make the train not fun to ride, because you'll know there's gonna be someone at the end waiting to kill you, then people will just want to avoid the train.

I didn't label it in the diagram, but we could possible have some underwater connections somewhere, but I'm not sure where exactly...

Also, I've been talking to Muhnay about what he thought, and he came up with a suggestion to have the train going through a whole mountain! -Sounds pretty awesome, don't you think? -Just an idea. But also, that had given me the idea about have sealed-off portions of maps show the train tunnel, so that players can look up and see the train passing overhead. -And if they see anyone in it, they know where to go to get a fight! So, what do you guys think?

-Also, Even though I've been doing these diagrams in Adobe Illustrator, I have made each layout in Photoshop. So, because of that, I feel that we might get more ideas if I simply release those to anyone who wants them. So here ya go:
spcm2_overviews.zip
[NOTE]: Some maps have two floors, so you will find those as separate .psd files but they are all named appropriately.

-Have at it!

[UPDATE]: Here is a new level layout that Muhnay came up with. I edited it to include the train. Which, BTW I figured people would want to see, but I suppose other's may not? -Personally I don't have any problem working it into the map, unless someone really doesn't think it belongs. Opinions? Questions?

Anyhow, here is another revised diagram:

Direct link: here.

Notes:
The Red and Blue team start point to the map in general and not the part or section of the map specifically. Muhnay suggested we include a 'Wall of Shame' with each Snarker's picture along it in one of the tunnels somewhere that you could view as you rode the train (the train could slow down at that particular part.

Now, you may discuss! :P

[ Edited by riven on Thu Oct 16th 2008 at 9:57pm - total edits: 1]



Blog: www.playingarchitecture.net
LinkedIn: Eric Lancon
Twitter:@Riven202



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 Re: Compilation Map 2008
Posted by G4MER on Fri Oct 17th at 5:00am 2008

I don't think we need the train, honestly. It could just be implied with the train depot map that was submitted and placed in the center train station plot point. You could attach the hall of shame still off the station and under or behind Natus map and tie the exit on the top of the map to it. You could take a picture of their map add a plaque under the picture with a small picture of the mapper to give credit to each mapper who entered.. would also be a good place to to show who won with a Golden Snark Model.. something I will make. I will make a Gold, Silver and Bronze version that will just be skins you select. I will even make the plaque if you give me a list of the winners.. and if they would be kind enough to send me a picture of them if your not wanting your face immortalized then send me a proxy... but it has to be something that relates to you, forum avatar something but I would prefer your image.. I promise to give them the utmost respect.



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 Re: Compilation Map 2008
Posted by haymaker on Fri Oct 17th at 2:05pm 2008

? still can't see any images, in firefox or iexplore. Firefox gives me this message

The image “http://www.genecy.net/spmc2_2008/level_layout3.jpg” cannot be displayed, because it contains errors.

Iexplore just shows red-x'ed boxes and neither show anything on the snark page.

Anyway I'm sure the ideas are shaping up nicely! I'll be done the main section of the station this weekend, so you can have an overview. Something that's crossed my mind is the elevation of these maps, as I can't see images, it seems to me that Redwood, Aaron, and Hotdog's maps are surface, while Natus, Hotdog's tunnel, and mine are subterranean.





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 Re: Compilation Map 2008
Posted by Riven on Fri Oct 17th at 9:20pm 2008

Ok, fixed the images. You should now be able to see them. They were in CMYK color mode and apparently IE and older versions of Firefox can't render those properly. =news to me! But I changed them to RGB mode and they appeared for me in IE, so hopefully they're working for you now.

If you can get your map to me this weekend, I might be able to start putting these maps together! Start seeing what works and what doesn't. Also, I'm settling on the final layout I posted, unless someone else has some objections or other ideas? (But of course, we can always change even after I get started...)


Blog: www.playingarchitecture.net
LinkedIn: Eric Lancon
Twitter:@Riven202



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 Re: Compilation Map 2008
Posted by G4MER on Sat Oct 18th at 4:32am 2008

RIVEN

I need ASPA! The Winner, Second and third Place, plus any honorable mentions. I have the award Model ready need to make the plaque textures.

Please list the Name of the winner and the name of the map together. TY.



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 Re: Compilation Map 2008
Posted by Riven on Sat Oct 18th at 7:07am 2008

-Done. (over chat).


Blog: www.playingarchitecture.net
LinkedIn: Eric Lancon
Twitter:@Riven202



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 Re: Compilation Map 2008
Posted by Le Chief on Sat Oct 18th at 8:27am 2008

Awesome, this thing is coming together smiley.

I was playing around with making a layout from the psd files Riven offered but I screwed it up, might try it again a little later.


Aaron's Stuff



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 Re: Compilation Map 2008
Posted by haymaker on Sat Oct 18th at 4:49pm 2008

Ah there we go thank you Riven.

Sample C looks like a pretty good start. They all work aesthetically too. I had wondered about putting Natus' off of the train station as they both could be the same building but it doesn't matter really.

Gameplay isn't really the focus here but it kinda looks like a CS layout, for sure you will be dead in the machine room or the hotdog-tunnel, it may be that one team will never see the other team's start. That is just conjecture really seeing as there's been no design for item placement. Maybe it's not bending the rules to move a few items around, eg there needs to be a big prize in the machinery room. With a little thought to power bases the whole thing could play out better.

If you rotated Natus 90 deg ccw the high exit could connect to the station entrance while the low one could connect to Riven, with a little T-intesection in that passage to a train platform.

If you rotated Redwood 90deg ccw you could connect the "door" exit to the other station entrance ( which is @ SE corner of the block in the pic atm, could be moved ) instead of to a train platform. Doing that would allow you to move Hotdog 2 to the west and shorten that tunnel to hotdog1 there.

The deleted train stop could be moved anywhere SW of hotdog2 with access in the hotdog1 to hotdog2 tunnel, making the circuit more even in terms of time on the train. ( I cant get Pshop to do what I want atm , a pic would be better I know )

Then again the original has its strong points too, making the train a little more useful. I was mainly concerned with relieving choke point pressure a bit, so all my comments are gameplay-based.

Two other perhaps redundant points, I don't see much for visblocking between maps, easy to address; and the train requires a ridiculous amount of room for a 90 deg turn, it's a wedge-shaped box with a selection footprint of 1200 by 1200 ( otherwise the train passes into the tunnel walls ).

Nice work so far everybody.



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 Re: Compilation Map 2008
Posted by RedWood on Mon Oct 20th at 3:44am 2008

I think layout 3 looks good but what if Hotdogs first entry was placed between Rivens and Aarons entry. It would fit well and cut down on the amount of track.


Reality has become a commodity.




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