Owned.
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Re: Owned.
Posted by Cassius on Sun Jan 18th at 12:50am 2004


1) The source engine is obviously very powerful, is there any Half Life code in it?

Rick Ellis: All of the code in the Source engine is new.

http://www.bluewolf72.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=3799#post3799





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Re: Owned.
Posted by Leperous on Sun Jan 18th at 1:15am 2004


? quote:
We?ve added the torus as one of the basic building blocks. This makes it easy to build smooth pipes, tunnels etc.

MmmmMMmm...





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Re: Owned.
Posted by Edge Damodred on Sun Jan 18th at 1:26am 2004


Donuts...mmmm

Wonder if maps will still take 5 years to compile...

Thankfully the devkit comes with a version of XSI, which really the only reason I'd get HL2, just to get experience with that program.

[addsig]




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Re: Owned.
Posted by Campaignjunkie on Sun Jan 18th at 1:48am 2004


? posted by Edge Damodred

which really the only reason I'd get HL2, just to get experience with that program.

Um, you won't get HL2 to play it?

[addsig]




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Re: Owned.
Posted by Cassius on Sun Jan 18th at 2:05am 2004


Torus?





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Re: Owned.
Posted by Edge Damodred on Sun Jan 18th at 2:58am 2004


? posted by Campaignjunkie
? posted by Edge Damodred

which really the only reason I'd get HL2, just to get experience with that program.

Um, you won't get HL2 to play it?

nope, not really

[addsig]




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Re: Owned.
Posted by Campaignjunkie on Sun Jan 18th at 3:11am 2004


? posted by Cassius

Torus?

It's basically a 3d-ring.

[addsig]




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Re: Owned.
Posted by Cash Car Star on Sun Jan 18th at 3:48am 2004


? posted by Cassius

Torus?

It's latin for a plain, bland-tasting donut.





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Re: Owned.
Posted by Monqui on Sun Jan 18th at 6:43am 2004


Basically- take a sheet of paper- much like this graphical representation below:

</p><!--code-->Code:<TABLE width="95%" align=center><TR><TD><FONT face=courier size=2>
a-----b
| |
| |
c-----d
</font></td></tr></table><!--/code-->

*edit* weak- the pipes don't line up. Use your imagination.
*note* Code chunks get fugly when you quote/edit them.

Wonderful.

Now, bend the paper into a cylinder such that a touches b and c touches d. Now, bend it AGAIN (into a donut shapey thing) so that all points touch one another.

And that is a simplistic torus.

They're neat because they only have one side, much like a sphere- but they have a hole in them! I would assume that this would "excite" math "people" in some "way" and cause them to go party or something. I guess. Still kinda neat-o though. [addsig]




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Re: Owned.
Posted by Jinx on Sun Jan 18th at 7:21am 2004


Rick Ellis: Of course this depends on the complexity of their mods, however in most cases it will be very easy to port a mod to Half-Life 2.

Yet it has no HL1 source code...? Riiigggghhttt...

Rick Ellis: Maps are ?roughed out? with world brushes, blocks, cylinders, toruses, etc. The detailed parts of the map are created with models built in XSI. In general, models are more detailed than brushes but since they don?t provide visibility blocking, you can?t use models everywhere.

Wow that sounds JUST LIKE UT2K3! Get ready to learn modeling my little Snarkpitters!

Rick Ellis: Three of the biggest things that Source has to expand the FPS genre are facial expressions/animations, advanced AI and real world physics.

Someone was talking about how DOOM3 wasn't 'optimized' for multiplayer. HL2 sounds the same, (and we've seen NO multi for it yet). Seriously, AI and facial expressions aren't important for multi. Are you really going to notice that your teammate is lipsyncing what he says or not? Does that really effect gameplay? And as for whether the physics stuff really works online.. well we'll see. But even then, it's mostly a gimmick that wouldn't effect gameplay unless you were doing a very unrealistic mod. Wow, CS with realistic tossable mattresses and crates, I'm soooo excited!





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Re: Owned.
Posted by Cash Car Star on Sun Jan 18th at 7:27am 2004


Look, HL2 is not gonna ship without a decent multiplayer. The rampant success of HL1 is firmly entrenched in its multiplayer aspects. There's just no way it makes good business sense for it to ship without a multiplayer. (Highlight for tasteless joke) That'd be like the WNBA refusing ticket sales to lesbians.



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Re: Owned.
Posted by Jinx on Sun Jan 18th at 7:58am 2004


my tasteless comeback: or the NRA refusing membership to Texans & white trash.

well it isn't good business sense either to say a game will be out, get it on the cover of every game magazine out there, and not follow through. not only did they irritate a lot of fans, I'm sure the press was a little miffed since they were misled as well.

(insert random insult about Valve's 'good business sense' here.)

I disagree, though, about HL1's 'rampant success'. It was modding that ultimately gave HL1 it's longetivity, but HL's generic DM isn't exactly brilliant stuff man. I mean, I like it, but it's nothing special and I don't think it was a major selling point for the game initially- we bought it for the brilliant one-player adventure. (once they added TFC, though...). If HL1 hadn't had a great one-player game, it never would have gotten to the critical mass it needed for multiplayer modding to take off.

[edit] The playing field may be different, now, though, in terms of what people expect from games in general and HL2 in particular.





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Re: Owned.
Posted by Cassius on Sun Jan 18th at 8:06am 2004


? posted by Jinx

Rick Ellis: Of course this depends on the complexity of their mods, however in most cases it will be very easy to port a mod to Half-Life 2.

Yet it has no HL1 source code...? Riiigggghhttt...

Rick Ellis: Maps are ?roughed out? with world brushes, blocks, cylinders, toruses, etc. The detailed parts of the map are created with models built in XSI. In general, models are more detailed than brushes but since they don?t provide visibility blocking, you can?t use models everywhere.

Wow that sounds JUST LIKE UT2K3! Get ready to learn modeling my little Snarkpitters!

Rick Ellis: Three of the biggest things that Source has to expand the FPS genre are facial expressions/animations, advanced AI and real world physics.

Someone was talking about how DOOM3 wasn't 'optimized' for multiplayer. HL2 sounds the same, (and we've seen NO multi for it yet). Seriously, AI and facial expressions aren't important for multi. Are you really going to notice that your teammate is lipsyncing what he says or not? Does that really effect gameplay? And as for whether the physics stuff really works online.. well we'll see. But even then, it's mostly a gimmick that wouldn't effect gameplay unless you were doing a very unrealistic mod. Wow, CS with realistic tossable mattresses and crates, I'm soooo excited!

First off, I'd like you to explain why it is that you believe your theories upon the Source engine, based on (assuming you did not download the code) complete speculation about screenshots and videos, should hold ANY water at all - much less authority over a Valve employee.

Second, I'd like you to explain your disposition to launch barrages of vague, uber-cynical tyrades in our direction every time somebody even mentions HL2.

I'm not convinced in the least that Valve would be predisposed, at least out of some malicious intent, to lie about their product. However, the publisher always has the big-name developers by the balls, and they have stretched the truth or beat around the bush about their game, but I'm convinced that would not be their intent under any other circumstances.

However, it seems half the internet has taken off about how they faked the hacking of their own source code (because every game company likes to announce potential complete failure rather than simply push back a f**king release date), whining about how the version they stole is subpar and (GASP) is unfinished, and that the HL2 engine is cardboard held together with duct tape. Not that you do (all of) those, Jinx, but such as it is, you stand on their side when you try to piss on an unreleased game that you, quite frankly, don't know s**t about.

Can you honestly make any factual case for HL2 multiplayer being trashy? When was the last time you played it? The fact that they haven't shown it means nothing - they didn't show the game itself for five years, but it was still there. Though to believe in HL2's existence a year or so ago would be a tremendous leap of faith, to suggest that Vivendi would allow them to ship without a functional multiplayer system is ridiculous.

[addsig]




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Re: Owned.
Posted by Leperous on Sun Jan 18th at 11:02am 2004


As Jinx said about TFC improving HL's multiplayer side, I reckon they'll do a TF2 on us...





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Re: Owned.
Posted by scary_jeff on Sun Jan 18th at 11:05am 2004


I thought they said they were keeping the multiplayer aspect a secret, like they are doing with the plot of the single player game? If there is no multiplayer they would never say 'the multiplayer is a supprise'. I suppose Jinx you think that they will just turn around when the game comes out and say "ha! the supprise is there is no multiplayer! Suckers!!"



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Re: Owned.
Posted by SHeeP on Sun Jan 18th at 1:18pm 2004


i hope they're going to turn around and say that steam is an april fools [addsig]



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Re: Owned.
Posted by matt on Sun Jan 18th at 1:28pm 2004


no but steam was made by a bunch of fools. [addsig]



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Re: Owned.
Posted by KungFuSquirrel on Sun Jan 18th at 2:19pm 2004


? quote:

Yet it has no HL1 source code...? <img align=texttop src="images/smiles/confused.gif"> Riiigggghhttt...


Even with from-scratch source code, there's no way Valve would be stupid enough to not make certain components similar enough to what is already there to make it compatible with what they already know - this has nothing to do with mod teams, even, but everything to do with their own in-house team. Learning new tech is a long and expensive progress. You make your new tech to fit the mold of your old tech while still making significant leaps and bounds, you can get your existing team to work right away with little turnover time. This is why, for example, Source engine uses an updated version of Hammer. Rather than training all their level designers in something new like Radiant or UnrealEd, they jump in immediately with their familiar tech and now just need to learn how to use the new features and upgrades instead of re-learning everything.

? quote:

Wow that sounds JUST LIKE UT2K3! Get ready to learn modeling my little Snarkpitters!


Wow, that sounds JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER GAME IN EXISTENCE THAT IS NOW COMING OUT. UT2K3 is only unique in that it is pretty much the only game with the heavy reliance on modeled detail that it has. Doom 3, HL2, and any other major new game that will be out or has come out recently is going to use this sort of workflow. It's the smart way to do it. There is no convenient way to make a CSG editor as powerful as a modeling package, especially when Max, Maya, Lightwave, etc. are all very well established already. So it becomes convenient to, for a time, start bringing the two together. Knock out the basic geometry

? quote:

Someone was talking about how DOOM3 wasn't 'optimized' for multiplayer. HL2 sounds the same, (and we've seen NO multi for it yet). Seriously, AI and facial expressions aren't important for multi. Are you really going to notice that your teammate is lipsyncing what he says or not? Does that really effect gameplay? And as for whether the physics stuff really works online.. well we'll see. But even then, it's mostly a gimmick that wouldn't effect gameplay unless you were doing a very unrealistic mod. Wow, CS with realistic tossable mattresses and crates, I'm soooo excited!


Depending on how simple the facial expression bit may be, it may or may not feature in multiplayer. As for physics, all the really complicated stuff can only be effectively calculated client-side - it was stated long ago that for MP, the physics would be handled entirely differently (as every computer doing client-side calculations on where an object is... well, you can imagine the problem).

As far as gameplay additions as such, there isn't any. But there's an addition to the gameplay experience. Rather than making the game more fun to play, this sort of thing (the facial expressions and whatever physics may work in MP) makes the experience itself more interesting. If you see your teammates' faces moving as they speak and, possibly, displaying emotion, you'll be better brought into the experience. If your teammate bumps into a small box and knocks it off a shelf leaving a clattering noise in its wake, even if the other team doesn't even know that it happened, the two of you will freeze in panic hoping that you haven't been noticed. You're more involved in the game itself, regardless of what gameplay is present.

However, notice that of the three things listed in the quote you quoted, one of them is AI. Your reply to that quote is solely in the context of MP, but he's not even talking about MP! These are things that are huge for the single player game alone. But even then, it's expanding the FPS experience, not the game itself. Most things that can be done at the core of an FPS have been done and can easily be done well. Now the challenge is not necessarily to re-invent that (you still have to make it somewhat unique and enjoyable within the scope of each game, of course) but instead to add to it, to make the scope even larger... to "expand the genre." [addsig]




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Re: Owned.
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Sun Jan 18th at 2:37pm 2004


How about ya'll bitch when the game is released or you actually have the game in your hands instead of extrapolating way beyond every little thing that's said? That seems like a good plan... then again, common sense never reigned supreme in the HL community...



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Re: Owned.
Posted by matt on Sun Jan 18th at 3:01pm 2004


? posted by Yak_Fighter
How about ya'll bitch when the game is released or you actually have the game in your hands instead of extrapolating way beyond every little thing that's said? That seems like a good plan... then again, common sense never reigned supreme in the HL community...

yes and?






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