Posted by Gorbachev on Fri Apr 23rd at 3:37am 2004
Posted by KoRnFlakes on Fri Apr 23rd at 6:58am 2004
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Posted by Campaignjunkie on Fri Apr 23rd at 7:29am 2004
10 GMT
PST = -8 GMT
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Posted by Gorbachev on Fri Apr 23rd at 8:30pm 2004
I'm compiling now, it'll be about an hour, but you'll see me on Steam. I'll update the file when it's done so you can either join my server or just test it out on your own. If you would be so kind as to either give feedback here or send informative critiques to gorb@shaw.ca that would be great. If a part isn't right, don't just say it's wrong, tell me why and a suggestion you have. Thanks.
[edit] The compile completed successfully, I'm now uploading it to http://members.shaw.ca/cplusdod for you to download. All necessary files should be there. If you have any troubles give me a shout.
[addsig]Posted by Gorbachev on Fri Apr 23rd at 10:42pm 2004
I'll start the bug-list as well here. (And if fixed/tested yet for beta.)
-Section of wall at the end of the allied spawn tunnel missing. (yes/yes)
-Chunk of grass allows you to "fall through" in Steam only near allied HQ. (yes/no)
-Texture on steps of church accidentally changed. (yes/no)
-trigger_multiple text messages don't show up in Steam. (no/no)
[addsig]Posted by Orpheus on Sat Apr 24th at 11:17pm 2004
(insert obligatory warning message here)
O.K. considering i know nada about the game play involved with a DoD map, i will try my damnedest to stick strictly to the cosmetics and such involved with the design, and construction of the map.. also, if i repeated any comments already posted, mark it up as my own laziness to not reading all the preceding replies..

Now this is basically a pet peeve of mine, and basically consistent throughout the entire map.. 1st off, alignment issues.. which are obvious, and prolly already mentioned so much gorby is tired of hearing it, but the only reason i bring it up at all is.. the walls.. are all standing, but there are no buttresses anyplace, no end, nor beginnings, no posts, nada.. the walls are just standing.. it always seemed to me to be odd where walls have nothing actually holding them up.. at least each time they actually change direction.. but as i said, its a pet peeve, and strictly up to the author.

another bit of trivial commentary.. you can see behind this house, but cannot walk behind it.. if there were a fence, you could understand, or with other locales in the map, a tree has fallen to block the way, but here its open.. and i assume clipped off

another wall, misaligned, and nothing in the way of transition between its changes in direction


two doors, same house, one on floor, the other standing, but on the sunlit side of the house.. func_doors do not block light when compiling, the light on the floor looks odd at best.. my advice.. switch doors locations with each other.

this table, may have a purpose i dunno, but it needs some broken chairs or boxes to sit on, also for all the debris, the handrails are almost all whole.. looks odd IMO

dark, really dark.. screens are unaltered, so i dunno if its my PC, or the map.. or the authors intention.. more people need to look to get a consensus i suppose.

beautifully flowing water to..... no place
.. some sort of a drain, or outlet needs added for authenticity.



these three shots, all of the same area.. show a HOM effect.. prolly due to some clipping of the angles.. an invalid solid might be around close

although a nice touch most times, in this case, i feel the body under the rocks is out of place, the body has no obvious damage, no blood, its just.. there

logs undamaged as well.. need some smut covered logs instead..

car against wall = bad ... at the very least, set it at some sort of an odd angle, or damage it in some way????

for all the rubble, there is no smoke, no dust.. everything looks as if its been vacuumed spotless.. in fact the whole town looks like Mr. Clean made a house call.. the town has damage, but is so pristine, no burnt treetops (although a few are on their sides, but even these still retain leaves, something not normal for fallen timber
) no real battle damage at all..



toss a grenade into the water.. the effects are impressive

more dark tunnels, and nothing holding the roofs up.. /me wonders, if battles were present before they were dug

a hole in the wall?? intentional though i doubt it to be.. it definitely marks the tunnel entrance behind the bush


climb the wall, and you see this
i am totally cognizant of the notion, that i more than likely missed a s**t load of details, i got turned around several times, just acquiring these few screen shots, and i also realize that almost all of my comments focus on the issues that need attended to, this is no reflection on the map, or gorby's mapping ability.. this is a superb map in all respects, and if i really needed to, i could get just as many screen shots of the great areas.. but since critiques should not have to focus on what doesn't need fixed, it would only take up space.. gorby knows his work is superior to most, he doesn't need my verification to make it so..
nice map gorby, and i cannot wait to look it over in beta form..
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Posted by Myrk- on Sat Apr 24th at 11:34pm 2004
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Posted by Kage_Prototype on Sat Apr 24th at 11:34pm 2004
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Posted by Myrk- on Sat Apr 24th at 11:36pm 2004
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Posted by Kage_Prototype on Sat Apr 24th at 11:41pm 2004
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Posted by Orpheus on Sat Apr 24th at 11:44pm 2004
i apologize for the quantity of screen-shots, but believe me, i resisted taking more, the map is so nice..
just be glad, i am such a nazi on optimizing them.. look at the actual file sizes, they are tiny when compared to most peoples, and damned good quality still..
again, i apologize, but a critique warrants them.. at least mine do.. please get used to it.
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Posted by Myrk- on Sat Apr 24th at 11:49pm 2004
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Posted by 7dk2h4md720ih on Sat Apr 24th at 11:50pm 2004
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Apr 25th at 12:06am 2004
| ? posted by Alien_Sniper |
| Very nice Jon, was going to take a run through this myself when I got some time. |
thanx dave, turned out pretty good for my debut return if i do sayso myself ![]()
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Posted by Gorbachev on Sun Apr 25th at 12:30am 2004
Thank you for your input. The majority of those issues I'm either a)aware of or b)don't have much left in compile limits to address. (sorry if my comments are really out of order)
I found the HOM error, and a few of the others while I was running around before this critique and they've already been addressed to.
The darkness of the map tends to alter with each compile (I don't know why exactly) I could probably just up the minimum light a bit.
I've put up supports in most areas, that allied tunnel still needs a bit of work, I'll probably end up making it squared with supports.
I know about the alignment issues..only problem is, it's either going to be aligned but stretched or it will take me days to align everything. (Think about the sheer amount of walls and how I'd have to make them all aligned in sequence. 
I could throw a fence in that spot for sure in the Allied spawn.
As for the light through the door, I know about it, but I can't change them around for fear of spawn camping. I'm working on adding a similar anti-spawn camping that the Axis have into that door area THEN I can fix that light leak.
That table -used- to have fallen chairs near it, but it was at that time I ran into the precache model overflow error, and deleted them in a frenzy to try and lower entities, I've figure out what the cause is now, and I can add a chair or two there. As well as break a few of the rails too.
That dark tunnel is intentional, but it will be brightened a bit with next compiles. (it's hard to find a light balance, as too bright is nasty, but so is too dark.)
I know the water somewhat "ends" but I don't have any more wpoly that I can use, that area is already pushing it. It's flowing slow enough that I just think of it as a sort of pond, but if anyone has any solid ideas then by all means say 'em.
As for the smoke, burnt-ness and such. The church at least, well isn't on fire so I think it's fine as-is. The logs and most trees are default models, so unless I can find otherwise I'll work with what I have. I *could* add sprite smoke in some areas so we'll see about that. I think there is a destroyed car model, so I'll add that in place of the other car and just destroy the area around it.
As for the guy crushed by the rocks (which is just a little detail anyway) I don't think blood is necessary because the height of the rocks isn't really enough to cause anything more than internal damage.
I've also fixed the clip on the two trees in the main area, as well as made the stump of the tree over the river a lot nicer than what's in those pictures.
Overall it's fairly "clean" because it's suppose to be a recently battled area (within a day). So the trees on their sides would still have their leaves and such. I'll add a few fires, smoke and whatever else I can squeeze in.
Thanks for pointing the stuff out, I did find some of it myself as well, but this helps too. Comments/suggestions from others are encouraged.
[edit] as for supports on the walls throughout, I think I can put them in at joints (some wood supports). Very minimalistic though.
[addsig]Posted by Orpheus on Sun Apr 25th at 12:53am 2004
i am so glad you liked it.. understandably, i am a bit gun-shy when doing critiques anymore.. i never know how far to push the truth.. sadly, i wish i didn't have to think about that aspect at all. 
if you like, i can do one more critique of the "finished" works.. prior to release, all you need do is ask.. assuming i am home or you have time to wait for me to get home..
good luck gorby ![]()
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Posted by Gorbachev on Sun Apr 25th at 1:22am 2004
Nah, feedback is great. I already know people like it, I'm always up for technical problems to be addressed. Once all of that's done, the beta comes out. That is for gameplay critiques. I'll be sure to run the map by you once more before I'm finished the beta.
[addsig]Posted by 7dk2h4md720ih on Sun Apr 25th at 1:49am 2004
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Apr 25th at 1:50am 2004
i have been giving the water some thought, as its the most critical visual flaw in the map IMO..
how about moving some trees, or bushes, or possibly some cat tails water plants to obscure the fact that there is no outlet.. then once its obscured, put some black texture behind to give the impression of an outlet...
or possibly, find a texture, that has a tunnel... with the plants it could be pulled off.
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Posted by Gorbachev on Sun Apr 25th at 2:20am 2004
| ? posted by Alien_Sniper |
| You can set func_doors to block light. Set it to opaque in the ZHLT Lighlt flags selection in the properties box. |
I'm aware, but then it looks stupid when the door is open. It's bad either way.
Orph, I'll be thinking hard on what a good outlet can be...actually, I have a pretty good one, I'll make a stone surrounded drain, with a grate. Then have the water going into that, and as a touch of continuity I'll have it flowing down visibly in the tunnels (a little side detail sort of thing).
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