Snarkpit Forum Index » Maps » TF2 - my new map teaser
TF2 - my new map teaser
1
23 next page »
Post Reply
Quote
 Re: TF2 - my new map teaser
Posted by Kampy on Mon Jul 27th at 9:26pm 2009

hay guise! you've been such a great help I gotta feed you with some pics so that you dont think 'hey that Kampy guy prolly makes nuttin at all'
(I usually never publish any pics of my maps before release)







hf smiley smiley



Quote
 Re: TF2 - my new map teaser
Posted by Kampy on Tue Jul 28th at 1:08pm 2009

here's the latest: the scud launcher! smiley





Quote
 Re: TF2 - my new map teaser
Posted by Le Chief on Wed Jul 29th at 3:24am 2009

I didn't reply because TF2 isn't my area of expertise.

Are the vehicles actual models or are they brush based? The windows on the truck look pretty dodgy and the blue on the tanks and patriot missile thing don't go down to well.

The environment itself in this looks a bit rough. The rocky displacement surfaces are pointy and the texture looks a little weird with those shadows? I assume the shadows are baked into the texture? Again, not my area of expertise but I would think you would use a texture like that only at a distance.

I also think that the lighting could probably be improved. I think the areas on the right of the same screenshot need to be lit more.

Anyway, that's all I got really, I've only every played TF2 once even though I own the game and have never really looked into it. Looking forward to seeing the next batch of screenshots! smiley


Aaron's Stuff



Quote
 Re: TF2 - my new map teaser
Posted by haymaker on Wed Jul 29th at 4:26am 2009

agree with aaron here, try to use models where you can in these instances. that way you have the option of setting fades at least when you're optimising. speaking of which it's not a bad idea to hide complex models in lil alcoves and such so's you can be aggressive on the fades. glhf



Quote
 Re: TF2 - my new map teaser
Posted by Kampy on Wed Jul 29th at 3:22pm 2009

Quoting aaron_da_killa
Are the vehicles actual models or are they brush based? The windows on the truck look pretty dodgy and the blue on the tanks and patriot missile thing don't go down to well.


They are mostly brush based. The extreme blue and green in the vehicles and buildings is intentional. ^^

Quoting aaron_da_killa

The environment itself in this looks a bit rough. The rocky displacement surfaces are pointy and the texture looks a little weird with those shadows? I assume the shadows are baked into the texture? Again, not my area of expertise but I would think you would use a texture like that only at a distance.


As for the rough terrain I think it's okay I thought it would look worse if I smoothend it. I totally agree on the texture though. TF2 has little textures for this kinda purpose so I had to take something like this. I might make my own texture instead if I find out how to include the texture into the mapfile.

Quoting aaron_da_killa

I also think that the lighting could probably be improved. I think the areas on the right of the same screenshot need to be lit more.


I havent worked on most of the lighting so far. Hadnt had time for that. So indeed I will have to do that.

Quoting aaron_da_killa

Anyway, that's all I got really, I've only every played TF2 once even though I own the game and have never really looked into it. Looking forward to seeing the next batch of screenshots! smiley


yeah alright Imma feed you some more later. thanks for the tips.



Quote
 Re: TF2 - my new map teaser
Posted by omegaslayer on Wed Jul 29th at 3:33pm 2009

Quoting haymaker
agree with aaron here, try to use models where you can in these instances. that way you have the option of setting fades at least when you're optimising. speaking of which it's not a bad idea to hide complex models in lil alcoves and such so's you can be aggressive on the fades. glhf


I dont know why everyone just keeps suggesting to turn stuff to models... its not that easy, you have to get XSI, and if you can bear using that piece of shit program without finding a cracked version of maya or studio max, then you have to completely relearn a entirely new tool, of which going from hammer -> modeling program is a pain. While it would be a good learning experience, its not something to be suggested lightly.

Kampy- try doing a search for some free tank models on the internet, and refer to a tutorial to import those models into hammer.

If you cant find models for those props you made, you can turn them into func_lod - which fades the brush object at a distance that you can set.



Quote
 Re: TF2 - my new map teaser
Posted by Kampy on Wed Jul 29th at 4:58pm 2009

I like my brush-work :P I tried modeling and it's hard.

Quoting omegaslayer
you can turn them into func_lod - which fades the brush object at a distance that you can set.


func_lod? sounds freakin awesome! I was looking for a function like that smiley

P.S. does that mean the engine doesnt see it either?

P.P.S. thewall.de says yes! omg I love this function. it solves all my problems!



Quote
 Re: TF2 - my new map teaser
Posted by haymaker on Wed Jul 29th at 10:57pm 2009

func_lod known to be a processor hog especially on lower systems. doesn't work the same as prop fades. use with care.

I wasn't suggesting turning your brushwork into models, more like go cruise the net to find modeled alternatives.





Quote
 Re: TF2 - my new map teaser
Posted by Kampy on Thu Jul 30th at 8:20am 2009

whats a "processor hog"? whats "prop fades"? I used the func_lod on most of my prop_details now. Not good? smiley



Quote
 Re: TF2 - my new map teaser
Posted by Le Chief on Thu Jul 30th at 8:59am 2009

Quoting Kampy
whats a "processor hog"? whats "prop fades"? I used the func_lod on most of my prop_details now. Not good? smiley


By processor hog (processor pig) he is referring to how much processing power is consumed from the cpu by the func_lods. I assume this means that there is extra overhead associated with func_lods, maybe for every func_lod the game engine needs to perform a few extra tasks every frame so the performance benefit gained by the func_lod should outweigh the extra processing required for the func_lod.

By prop fades, he is referring the the ability to only render specific props when the player is within a certain range (so pretty much like the func lods). However although prop fades and func_lods do the same thing haymaker is saying that they work in different ways and that the prop fades work in a more efficient way to func lods.




Aaron's Stuff



Quote
 Re: TF2 - my new map teaser
Posted by Kampy on Thu Jul 30th at 8:04pm 2009

prop fades? how does that work?



Quote
 Re: TF2 - my new map teaser
Posted by Riven on Thu Jul 30th at 11:21pm 2009

Quoting aaron_da_killa
The windows on the truck look pretty dodgy and the blue on the tanks and patriot missile thing don't go down to well.


Well, I guess the texture choice would look pretty bad if you didn't realize what he was trying to do here. Has anyone else not noticed? 1. The map for an avatar, the tanks, patriot missile, spy plane, AA missiles... I guess you guys have never played Command & Conquer Generals? I for one am all about brush-based constructions. And if there was one Source game where they should be accepted as part of the natural setting (as opposed to using more realistic models) then it would be TF2.

Speaking of brushes for models, how often do you guys do it? Q. If there is a regular model that you could use instead of re-creating what you want out of brushes, would you use the model because it was easier? I know it probably depends on the model and situation, but If you were Kampy in this instance, and needed a colored tank for your map, would you look for a model instead of trying to make it out of brushes first? I think brush creation modeling is a lost art with the advent of the Source engine. People are looking for more intense detail and need it to look more realistic, so most mappers will venture towards making or looking up an adequate model for their needs instead of trying to create a simpler (or just as complex) version of the detail they want in brushes. I applaud Kampy here for sticking with the lost art of brush-modeling. Of course he took or takes for granted that maybe a lot of people still do this, but in reality not so much. He comes from a long time of experience mapping for the goldsource engine and is adapting his needs for the Source engine, so to him, his only option would have been to brush-model his constructions. So let us not spoil his (should I say naivety) for brush-modeling; I for one, welcome it. smiley


Blog: www.playingarchitecture.net
LinkedIn: Eric Lancon
Twitter:@Riven202



Quote
 Re: TF2 - my new map teaser
Posted by haymaker on Fri Jul 31st at 12:51am 2009

In principle I agree fully with your sentiment Riven. I did the same thing for my first release, architecturally. It ended up being a shit map in terms of performance and gameplay, though, so my point of view is biased.

There are plenty of great brushwork source maps out there in terms of architecture but by today's standards I see a lot of detail work that is hit and miss depending on the subject.

I agree that it's easy to fall into prop-trap mindsets, there's far too many pipeset32d or what have you out there in MP maps, but I think that is also partly because of an author's desire to over-detail to SP standards. As this is for MP I'd urge someone to consider the players and their expectations as much as their own artistic ambitions.

edit: on second look the screenshots are really not very flattering, there's no shadows on the tanks. They could use a more detailed texture too, and some dirt decalwork etc. Give us some closeups with real lighting!



Quote
 Re: TF2 - my new map teaser
Posted by Le Chief on Fri Jul 31st at 4:35am 2009

Quoting Riven
Well, I guess the texture choice would look pretty bad if you didn't realize what he was trying to do here. Has anyone else not noticed? 1. The map for an avatar, the tanks, patriot missile, spy plane, AA missiles... I guess you guys have never played Command & Conquer Generals?


Huh! I see what's going on now. smiley

I actually looked at this screenshot and thought "damn that looks like the patriot missile from Red Alert 2" (I guess you could consider that game part of the Command And Conquer series), hence why I said patriot missile thing. I still think the windows on the truck are butt ugly, at least align the texture or something.. unless that's how it appears in the game (C&C Generals). smiley

Myself, I like brush based constructions. Not sure why but they seem to be more genuine than models in a lot of cases and seem to have more character in a lot of cases, a well made brush based object that is.

Perhaps that's just because some models Half-Life 2 models have just become a cliche, the crates, oil drums, pipes, fences. Not to say they can't look good in a nicely composed space.. but seeing a brush based object is always a nice change.

Would I use a less desired model as opposed to a more desired custom made brush based object because it's easier? I think I would sometimes, mostly without even thinking about it. For example, I would just use the default gates instead of even considering making myself better looking gates just because they're available, same with the crates.

However I'll never force the use of a generic model if it's detracting from the map. For example that space I recently sent to you Riven for the compilation map, you may notice that the two roadblocks are brush based because the default model ones didn't quite fit in nicely plus they where perhaps a bit too high.

Quoting "Kampy"

Quoting aaron_da_killa

The environment itself in this looks a bit rough. The rocky displacement surfaces are pointy and the texture looks a little weird with those shadows? I assume the shadows are baked into the texture? Again, not my area of expertise but I would think you would use a texture like that only at a distance.


As for the rough terrain I think it's okay I thought it would look worse if I smoothend it. I totally agree on the texture though. TF2 has little textures for this kinda purpose so I had to take something like this. I might make my own texture instead if I find out how to include the texture into the mapfile.


I think you should smooth over those spikes to be honest, not the whole hill in general, just the spikes.

What you could have done is created those hills with the "radius" too low. Sometimes I do that and it results in spiky terrain. Or you just need to throw in some additional polygons into those displacements, don't fear, displacements are cheap to render, cheaper than normal brush geometry.. unless spiky geometry is a TF2 thing. smiley


Aaron's Stuff



Quote
 Re: TF2 - my new map teaser
Posted by Kampy on Fri Jul 31st at 10:12am 2009

Quoting Kampy
prop fades? how does that work?


*cough* smiley


(I might work on the mountains again - they already have the highest detail level, but I might just smoothen them - although I really 'like the spike')



Quote
 Re: TF2 - my new map teaser
Posted by Le Chief on Fri Jul 31st at 12:34pm 2009

Quoting Kampy
Quoting Kampy
prop fades? how does that work?


*cough* smiley


(I might work on the mountains again - they already have the highest detail level, but I might just smoothen them - although I really 'like the spike')


smiley

Check this out.


Aaron's Stuff



Quote
 Re: TF2 - my new map teaser
Posted by Kampy on Fri Jul 31st at 12:41pm 2009

my own sand/mountain texture combination:



still working on it



Quote
 Re: TF2 - my new map teaser
Posted by reaper47 on Fri Jul 31st at 12:45pm 2009

Quote
prop fades? how does that work?


Come on, Kampy! Just browse the Valve Developer Community a bit, all the basic stuff is explained there.



Quote
 Re: TF2 - my new map teaser
Posted by Le Chief on Fri Jul 31st at 12:57pm 2009

Are those hills rock or sand? If they're rock than I guess you could justify the spiky terrain but if it's supposed to be sand than it's way to spiky.

Just bear in mind, it is possible to smooth out those spikes without making the mountains look boring/uniform/ugly/dull.

Anyway, I'll stop going on about the hills. smiley

Edit: I clicked on the image to see full version and those hills are damn spiky, gotta flatten them out.


Aaron's Stuff



Quote
 Re: TF2 - my new map teaser
Posted by Kampy on Fri Jul 31st at 4:08pm 2009

Quoting reaper47
Quote
prop fades? how does that work?


Come on, Kampy! Just browse the Valve Developer Community a bit, all the basic stuff is explained there.


I did! I even googled it. I obviously couldnt find it, because it's not called prop fades smiley



(already smoothend the hills a bit.)

P.S. thanks for the link, but the 'fade distance' options can only be used for models smiley

P.P.S. So would you recommend removing the func_lods and making func_details again?




1
23 next page »
Post Reply