The Hive
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Re: The Hive
Posted by Smoke on Tue Mar 9th at 10:44pm 2004


I have been working on a new single player game based around the Resident Evil movie. I am currently working on The Hive's entrance, an underground trainstation located below Raccoon City. I plan to map the rest of The Hive including such places as the office area; the labs; Dining Hall B; the Laser Corridor; and the Red Queen's chamber. In the distant future I may turn it into a halflife 2 mod. Advice, Idea's and Critiques are welcome.








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Re: The Hive
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Mar 9th at 10:52pm 2004


you cannot direct link to a geocities address.. [addsig]



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Re: The Hive
Posted by Kage_Prototype on Tue Mar 9th at 11:38pm 2004


that third screen in the map profile reminds me of a Nightwatch shot. I'm not accusing you of anything, they just look similar.

TBH, the shots look really bland (although fair enough, the sets in the movie were blander than bland as well ). I suggest you try to create a larger ligh/dark contrast in your lighting, should make it look more sinister. Also, try to use some better textures; instead of copying the movie's bland sets, spice them up a bit. [addsig]




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Re: The Hive
Posted by Myrk- on Wed Mar 10th at 12:50am 2004


Darker boy! DARKER! Them zombies don't like the daylight you know! [addsig]



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Re: The Hive
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Wed Mar 10th at 2:09am 2004


Pretty much as others have said. your archatechture looks great, but those textures are terminaly insipid. More contrast, some colored accents.. ect.. it just isn't very interesting atm. [addsig]



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Re: The Hive
Posted by Smoke on Wed Mar 10th at 3:57am 2004


Thanks for the advice guys, I think if I turn down the texture lighting a bit, it should create more contrast to the area, I still have to add the train, security booth and entrance into The Hive, along with some barrels, metal crates, and forklifts. If anybody has links to some better textures, it would be great if you could post them.

This is one of my first maps and I appreciate the constructive criticism. I'll keep updating the map profile as I complete and tweak the different sections of The Hive.





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Re: The Hive
Posted by R@lph VViggum on Wed Mar 10th at 4:04am 2004


It looks great so far. Only thing you should do is add more to the second screenshot, and since you mentioned that I hope to see more. [addsig]



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Re: The Hive
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Wed Mar 10th at 4:35am 2004


Oh man, I can only bet the r_speeds are sky high. What you have looks good, but I can almost guarantee you this will not be a playable map.



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Re: The Hive
Posted by JFry on Wed Mar 10th at 10:00am 2004


I can only see the 1st and 3rd but they both look great. The first one could use some cool graffiti on the wall and have 1 of the lights flicker if you can afford a dynamic light there. The third pic looks great. In fact it looks too perfect. Have something to break up the linearity of it perhaps. Also some subtle highlights with colored texlights like a very light blue might look good here.



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Re: The Hive
Posted by diablo on Wed Mar 10th at 10:10am 2004


I'm a fan of Resident Evil. Good luck to you! Hope it works out well.





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Re: The Hive
Posted by Smoke on Thu Mar 11th at 10:59am 2004


The Trainstation and Dining Hall B are going to be the largest area's with alot of detail. Since this is probably going to be transfered to Half_Life 2 I'm not to worried about the r_speeds. Right now I'm shooting for about 2500 w_poly, the main station in the pics is about 3000 w_polies, but I am going to try to optimize it the best I can. My computer is an HP 500Mhz, 256MbRAM, with an Intel 10Mb Video accelerator and it runs smoothly in GL. It however, will not run in software mode. Does anybody know of some good train models??? That would lighten the w_poly hit quite a bit.



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Re: The Hive
Posted by Gollum on Thu Mar 11th at 11:13am 2004


*sigh*

I really don't think it's a good idea to make a map for HL2 before the game is released. It's unlikely to transfer well.

It's rather like trying to make a rich, dark painting in watercolour and then "port" it to oil paints. They are different media; they require different techniques.

Either make a map that works within the constraints of HL1, or wait for HL2. What you have at the moment is a bad map for HL1, and realistically that's all it will ever be.





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Re: The Hive
Posted by fishy on Thu Mar 11th at 12:02pm 2004


i do believe that its only the basic world geometry that you will be able to port to hl2. all of your textures will need to be re-done, as will every entity(point and world)

so if you were to delete all your point entities, and move all your brush entities back to world brushes, then retexture everything with aaatrigger, you will be left with what can get ported.

which wont be much.





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Re: The Hive
Posted by Smoke on Thu Mar 11th at 12:12pm 2004


? posted by Gollum

*sigh*

I really don't think it's a good idea to make a map for HL2 before the game is released. It's unlikely to transfer well.

First off, porting HL1 maps to HL2 maps should be fine. Read the VERC faq on the Source engine. All you have to do is re-model and re-texture the map. At this point the map has no models, or point entities, and needs to be re-textured anyways.

Its rather like taking a rich, detailed photo of a concept, and then "port" it to Half Life, different media that compliment each other.

Secondly, this map works great within the constraints of HL1 as long as you have a post 98' computer. If not you can probably pick one up for under a hundred pounds. Realistically you have no idea how good this map plays for HL1 because it is just a beta, and you havn't played it. Your basing your comments on a couple of very early screenshots.





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Re: The Hive
Posted by fraggard on Thu Mar 11th at 1:39pm 2004


Hohoho! This should be interesting *rubs hands with glee* Let me be the first.

? posted by Smoke

First off, porting HL1 maps to HL2 maps should be fine. Read the VERC faq on the Source engine. All you have to do is re-model and re-texture the map. At this point the map has no models, or point entities, and needs to be re-textured anyways.

Have you seen the engine? Do you know how to retexture the map? Heck, we don't even know whether the texturing works the same way. Heck, we know NOTHING because it hasn't been released yet. And no, a leaked alpha is not the game.

And besides, texturing is probably half the work in a HL map. So you have less than half complete...

? posted by Smoke

Its rather like taking a rich, detailed photo of a concept, and then "port" it to Half Life, different media that compliment each other.

There are certain restraints to computer games. Things like "We don't have an infinte number of polygons to work with" and "Games cannot compute mllions of photons working at the speed of light". Little things like that. It helps to know the capabilities of the engine before starting off on making something look more "realistic". So You can't port a "rich, detailed photo of a concept" without losing some of that richness and detail. You really need to learn how to work with HL for making the best maps. You can't port reality.

? posted by Smoke

Secondly, this map works great within the constraints of HL1 as long as you have a post 98' computer. If not you can probably pick one up for under a hundred pounds.

Simple question. What are the r_speeds in each of the pictures? Anything greater than 1500, and you're screwed. Because no matter what, the engine can't handle it very well. Games are not designed to scale infinitely based on GPU specs.( And a hundred pounds is a huge lot of money to play a game.)

? posted by Smoke

Realistically you have no idea how good this map plays for HL1 because it is just a beta, and you havn't played it. Your basing your comments on a couple of very early screenshots.

I can tell you with enough confidence that it probably will play bad. I see a room FULL of carved cylinders and pointless detail (the wall lights). That's enough reason for me. Fix it, or prove me wrong. And No, "My GEFRCOE FX5900 pwns j00000!!11" is not a valid reason.

Like Vash said: "Welcome to the snarkpit. We'll eat your legs"





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Re: The Hive
Posted by Gollum on Thu Mar 11th at 2:11pm 2004


Smoke, you can take my advice or leave it. It happens to be very good advice, from someone who knows about pushing a game beyond its normal limits. But it's up to you.

Go ahead and prove me wrong; until you do, I maintain that this method of mapping is a grand waste of your time.





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Re: The Hive
Posted by Smoke on Thu Mar 11th at 2:44pm 2004


Some images in this post have been automatically down-sized, click on them to view the full sized versions:

? posted by fraggard

I can tell you with enough confidence that it probably will play bad. I see a room FULL of carved cylinders and pointless detail (the wall lights). That's enough reason for me. Fix it, or prove me wrong. And No, "My GEFRCOE FX5900 pwns j00000!!11" is not a valid reason.

Like Vash said: "Welcome to the snarkpit. We'll eat your legs"

Carve isn't part of my vocabulary, and I appreciate the advice!!!, thankyou and keep it coming. This pillar was made at 24 sides apiece, I could cut the w_polies in half if I switch down to 12, that would bring the r_speeds to about 1500 w_polies. I could also cut the amount of wall lights down. Smoke a J and relax a bit guys.





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Re: The Hive
Posted by Gollum on Thu Mar 11th at 3:02pm 2004


Well, if you can get the r_speeds low enough, it will work fine for HL. Good luck; the sooner you cut down on polygon counts, the more likely it is that they will be low enough in the final version. If you leave the r_speeds reduction until the last minute, then you may have to start all over again (there's only so much you can get from tweaking; already you are thinking about rebuilding some architecture).

And thanks for your kind offer, but sadly spliffs and essays about modal quantification don't go well together





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Re: The Hive
Posted by Orpheus on Thu Mar 11th at 3:05pm 2004


speaking as someone who has had to repeatedly re-texture other peoples maps on several occasions, i can tell you this... not making a map for HL2 on the pretense that you might have to re-texture it is a poor choice, it can be done, and would be easier since its your map to begin with, i have re-textured several maps in the past 5 years, and none of them were my creations, it was tedious, but not overwhelmingly so.

the stolen alpha hammer has the option of, using the HL2 materials wads, or the HL1 wads, by simply clicking it into the path.. maybe the released version will too.

as to the engines ability to render, it is on several magnitudes greater than HL1 in its ability to draw without slowing down, but no where near U2's ability, as per the alpha, which i suspect, consist of maps not fully compiled properly, so the engine works harder than necessary.

even if porting ends up being a chore, IMO its worth the effort, if you bare in mind some bits of info..

1) the entities will not be the same.
2) the materials will have alternate settings, to allow for wood to act like wood, stone like stone, and steel as steel.. you will need to render these once its ported.
3) from what i have seen, large portions of the HL2 maps are not constructed from world solids as in HL1, you may be forced to reconstruct things such as stairs and brick-a-brack, in order to render a quality release.

anywho's even if i am wrong on all counts, any mapping at all, is good mapping.. keeps those creative juices flowing so to speak..

/ 2 cents

[addsig]




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Re: The Hive
Posted by fraggard on Thu Mar 11th at 3:35pm 2004


? posted by Smoke

Carve isn't part of my vocabulary, and I appreciate the advice!!!, thankyou and keep it coming. This pillar was made at 24 sides apiece, I could cut the w_polies in half if I switch down to 12, that would bring the r_speeds to about 1500 w_polies. I could also cut the amount of wall lights down.

Okay, A few more things I could think of to help:

  • The recessed lights along the wall could probably be done better with textures
  • The textures mostly seem like default HL textures. You could get much higher detail from some newer ones. You might find what you need if you look around.
  • The crates seem terribly boring. Unless you really need them, you might want to get rid of them
  • Defintely reduce the number of polygons on those pillar tops. 8 usually does just fine. You could mask the blockiness with some proper textures.
  • The boxy rooms. Try modifiying the actual layout of the room itself, so it looks less like a box full of pillars :/

I wouldn't know anything about porting it, so Orph's advice is definitely much more authoritative on that. Good luck with it anyway






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