[map] Titanic
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Re: [map] Titanic
Posted by Wild Card on Tue May 8th at 12:33pm 2012

Finally got a skybox put in as well as some added detail to the Boat Deck and fixing up more of the nodraw faces in the map. Should be able to make a new video soon.

Re: [map] Titanic
Posted by Wild Card on Wed May 9th at 11:46pm 2012

Hurray, I've made my 4th video update of the progress of Titanic. Its uploaded to Youtube and available here:


Check it out and enjoy smiley

Re: [map] Titanic
Posted by Orpheus on Fri May 11th at 2:41am 2012

Finally found enough free net to see this.
If the boat is to scale, the doorways, floor thickness and halls aren't.

But, its gonna take a bazzilion years to find and/or make textures.

Identifying areas is gonna be a bitch too.

However, the novelty of this project will cover a million sins. It looks fantastic old man. smiley

The best things in life, aren't things.

Re: [map] Titanic
Posted by Wild Card on Fri May 11th at 3:26am 2012

I actually found something yesterday that's put a bit of a dent in my spirits related to that...

When I first started this back in December, I had Googled to find a conversion between Hammer units and real world units. I found this on VDC: https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Dimensions#Source_Engine_Scale_Calculations which stated 16 Hammer units is equal to 1 foot.

I based all of my measurements based on those dimensions.

However yesterday I noticed you can change the map units in Hammer to feet and inches, and unfortunately, 1 foot is 12 Hammer units, not 16. I've just posted on VDC looking for clarification, but my bet is the original doc I found is incorrect.

Looks like I might be spending some time adjusting the entire ship.. bla. Gonna post in the pit editing forum too for extra input.

Re: [map] Titanic
Posted by Wild Card on Tue Oct 16th at 12:48am 2012

Thought I'd drop in a note saying hi, Im still alive. Im not sure what happened back in May, but amongst having my new daughter, vacation around that time, a busy load at work, and a slight loss of interest, I guess I just stopped working on this.

For the first time since May, I've fired up VHE and opened up my map. Going over the issue I was running into previously about scale, Im going to attempt to rescale the ship and start from there. If I switch the units display in VHE it shows the present ship to have a length of 1164ft 0in when in reality it is 882ft 9in.

I've always felt the dimensions werent where they should be. Hopefully this will help. And it will also make the entire map itself smaller, which I hope will improve performance.

So... lets see how that goes.

Re: [map] Titanic
Posted by Wild Card on Wed Oct 17th at 1:54am 2012

I did a scale test using the First Class Lounge on A Deck. As best as I could tell, from reference, the four support columns in the room are 11ft 4in tall, which I assume means the ceiling height is 11ft 4in. Using the new measurements (in which 1ft = 12u and not 1ft = 16u as described by Valve), I've rebuilt the First Class Lounge to size. For grins, I measured the ceiling height of the original scale one, and its a whopping 17ft 0in high!

Here's a quick Youtube showing the difference between the new scale (viewed first) and the old scale (viewed second) Its actually quite surprising. Next I'll focus on re-scaling the entire A Deck, and if I like the results, I'll work on the rest of the ship, deck by deck.


Re: [map] Titanic
Posted by Wild Card on Wed Oct 17th at 9:42pm 2012

I've completed the majority of the work with the First Class Lounge rescaling and positioned it where the original was. Here's a look at the difference.

You can clearly see the difference in all axis

Here a look at the measuring system I've implemented, whereas before I was doing calculations and measurements based on station 1-1, now I've actually built it out in map to make the rescale easier and quicker (hopefully)

Re: [map] Titanic
Posted by Wild Card on Sat Oct 20th at 4:50am 2012

Progress on the resize. The First Class Lounge, Gymnasium, and part of the Fore Grand Staircase are complete. You can clearly see the difference in size, especially in how much things are moving back in. The centre position of the ship hasnt changed (in the First Class Lounge), but with the new scale, the Fore Grand Staircase has to move back by more than it's original size.

Re: [map] Titanic
Posted by Ricky on Mon Aug 5th at 7:25pm 2013

I like the work you did here

i'm trying to make a 3D model myself but with medium resolution
using blender and cycles as renderer

if possible can you give some good references for some of the equipments
showing may be drawings or images for the different pumps in engine or turbine rooms

and also very much interested in electrical equipments
like i could not find a lot on the main switchgear
to make a nice 3D model
any good references on this would also be nice!

thank you very much
happy blendering

Re: [map] Titanic
Posted by No.2 on Fri Aug 9th at 6:31pm 2013

Hi Wild C and others interested (now i can say attached spiritualy)to this project.
Spend few hours reading and digging into this thread, im rather fascinated simultaneously disgusted by scope of this project, and your dogged attitude with which plunges headlong into it. And you dont do just the talk you do the work.
When I read to the point where you decided rescale the whole damn thing
Just thought to myself "he's a mad man" and i respect that.

I wish you strong will and nerves

bon voyage fellow mapper

oh, hi world..

Re: [map] Titanic
Posted by Wild Card on Fri Aug 16th at 1:45pm 2013

I havent actually worked on this since my last postings. Mostly due to the fact that the online reference I was using for the ship (blue prints designed by Bruce Beveridge) available on the Discovery website in limited visibility, were removed.

I could have purchased a printed copy of the plans on large paper but I have no drafting table or similar space to lay them out, nor the ability at the moment to fork out the cash for the next several months.

This was further so also because when I attempted the rescale of the First Class Lounge (visible in the last screenshot) what I also ended up noticing is that the new dimensions also didnt work right, and would have meant that keeping that scale, many parts of the ship (mostly fore and aft) would have been inaccessible because of the player's dimensions.

I've been doing work with a client in Hawaii this week and that's made me spend hours scouring Wikipedia on various pages, which started with the USS Arizona memorial and ship, and finishing with various pages on the Bismarck, it's battle against the Hood, and it's sinking.

With Four Funnels Entertainment doing a pretty darn good job with re-creating the Titanic in stunning detail in CryEngine, Im thinking maybe I can shift gears a little bit.

Im very meticulous. Often, to a fault.

Truthfully, having to re-scale wouldnt have really dampened anything (you should see my Panchaea project in Minecraft, that's how persistent I am). But the fact that the hours I spent on the re-scale were useless, coupled with the fact that I no longer had access to the plans I needed, kinda put a stop to it.

Re: [map] Titanic
Posted by Crono on Fri Aug 16th at 5:58pm 2013

Would these help? http://www.abratis.de/sources/pictures/blue.html

Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Re: [map] Titanic
Posted by Wild Card on Fri Aug 16th at 6:15pm 2013

Heya Crono!

Those images I found many moons ago when I first got interested in doing this (something like 4-5 years ago?) Unfortunately they arent as detailed as I'd need to satisfy my .... compulsiveness? to accurate measurements.

The plans which were hosted by Discovery were actually the plans developed by Bruce Beveridge and are available for purchase on paper here: http://titanic-model.com/ga-plans/ (level of detail: http://titanic-model.com/ga-plans/g-a_plans_preview2.shtml)

I've tried to ping Bruce in the past but dunno if he just doesnt check that associated email account or not.

Re: [map] Titanic
Posted by Wild Card on Sun Apr 16th at 2:57am 2017

Just felt like posting in. My daughter is now 5, and a bit surprisingly, has picked up an interest in Titanic. So that rekindled my interest in it as well.

I haven't touched my project since around October 2012, when around that time I had lost access to the blueprints online, and also discovered that the scale I had built was incorrect, resulting in dimensions somewhere around 40-50% larger than they were supposed to be.

Loosing access to the prints.. having to re-size everything.. and the lack of free time with a newborn.. I abandoned the project. The project going at the time by Four Funnels Entertainment was called 'Titanic Lost In The Darkness' has since disbanded and reformed as another title 'Titanic Honor & Glory' (http://www.titanichg.com/). Their work is truly stunning and even back in 2012 when I was doing my work, I knew I could not compete against this. Nor was it my goal. I wanted to build something of my own with it, and say I did it. Or at least, looking back, that's how I feel about it.

I have supported the Titanic Honor & Glory project, played their demos, and really look forward to it coming out.

But what I've also found, are that the blueprints I was using are back on the internet here (https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/titanic-deckplans/) so I am once again thinking about continuing my project. Something I've been thinking about ever since I stopped, but I didn't have the resources to continue.

We'll see..

Always happy to see this community is still on the interwebs, even if it's pretty well stale. I think this was the very first online community I ever joined.

Re: [map] Titanic
Posted by Crono on Sun Apr 16th at 9:13am 2017

You can do it! I believe in you.

Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Re: [map] Titanic
Posted by No.2 on Tue Apr 25th at 11:11pm 2017

Hello Wild
I believe in you as well but i also believe in well spent time.
If this projekt should become only hardship withouth joy, it's better for fresh start.You decide.
Good luck
smiley smiley

oh, hi world..

Re: [map] Titanic
Posted by Wild Card on Mon May 8th at 7:29pm 2017

Finally got around to finding my old stuff and sorting through it. It's amazing how much you start forgetting, and how things change. For instance, just getting VHE to run took me a good short while. SteamPipe (https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/SteamPipe) - was introduced sometime in the last 5 years I would assume and so that basically makes the old Source SDK useless, so I understand, and VHE is now run directly from the target game rather than from Source SDK. Did not know this at first, so when I ran VHE nothing came up within it.

Next up, as the whole ship is in a single map, it makes for a lot of brushes. I had hit limits often back then and cheated around it by creating models. Those models weren't loaded when I opened the map. I didn't have the model files anymore but I still had their source vmx. Google reminded me the tool was Propper, so compiled all those up and now I have a functioning map, minus some custom textures I probably had in some WAD file that I don't anymore. Not the end of the world since none of the texturing was really good. I might find it at some point.

Now I have to re-acquaint myself with the scale issue I had and what a new scale would look like, and I might start off there.

Doing lots of business travel for the next month and a half so I'm spending a lot of time on a train with ... probably better things to do ... but shh.

Re: [map] Titanic
Posted by No.2 on Tue May 9th at 12:14pm 2017

Oh man, so you decided to go for it... good lord have mercy on us
Lots of work ahead of you sailor. smiley

oh, hi world..

Re: [map] Titanic
Posted by Wild Card on Tue May 9th at 6:55pm 2017

Haven't really made any significant changes yet, but wanted to make sure I could get a compile done successfully. And I could.

Object names Objects/Maxobjs Memory / Maxmem Fullness
------------ --------------- --------------- --------
models 1/1024 48/49152 ( 0.1%)
brushes 7657/8192 91884/98304 (93.5%) VERY FULL!
brushsides 52281/65536 418248/524288 (79.8%)
planes 13370/65536 267400/1310720 (20.4%)
vertexes 38180/65536 458160/786432 (58.3%)
nodes 9281/65536 296992/2097152 (14.2%)
texinfos 423/12288 30456/884736 ( 3.4%)
texdata 14/2048 448/65536 ( 0.7%)
dispinfos 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
disp_verts 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
disp_tris 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
disp_lmsamples 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
faces 19686/65536 1102416/3670016 (30.0%)
hdr faces 0/65536 0/3670016 ( 0.0%)
origfaces 13505/65536 756280/3670016 (20.6%)
leaves 9283/65536 297056/2097152 (14.2%)
leaffaces 24552/65536 49104/131072 (37.5%)
leafbrushes 14288/65536 28576/131072 (21.8%)
areas 2/256 16/2048 ( 0.8%)
surfedges 155187/512000 620748/2048000 (30.3%)
edges 98505/256000 394020/1024000 (38.5%)
LDR worldlights 0/8192 0/720896 ( 0.0%)
HDR worldlights 0/8192 0/720896 ( 0.0%)
leafwaterdata 0/32768 0/393216 ( 0.0%)
waterstrips 2920/32768 29200/327680 ( 8.9%)
waterverts 0/65536 0/786432 ( 0.0%)
waterindices 59745/65536 119490/131072 (91.2%) VERY FULL!
cubemapsamples 0/1024 0/16384 ( 0.0%)
overlays 0/512 0/180224 ( 0.0%)
LDR lightdata [variable] 7491732/0 ( 0.0%)
HDR lightdata [variable] 0/0 ( 0.0%)
visdata [variable] 1551866/16777216 ( 9.2%)
entdata [variable] 2141/393216 ( 0.5%)
LDR ambient table 9283/65536 37132/262144 (14.2%)
HDR ambient table 9283/65536 37132/262144 (14.2%)
LDR leaf ambient 4058/65536 113624/1835008 ( 6.2%)
HDR leaf ambient 9283/65536 259924/1835008 (14.2%)
occluders 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
occluder polygons 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
occluder vert ind 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
detail props [variable] 1/12 ( 8.3%)
static props [variable] 1/6496 ( 0.0%)
pakfile [variable] 173830/0 ( 0.0%)
physics [variable] 2832102/4194304 (67.5%)
physics terrain [variable] 2/1048576 ( 0.0%)

Re: [map] Titanic
Posted by Wild Card on Sun May 14th at 10:33pm 2017

I've spent quite a bit of time debating the scale issue.. how much I should care about it (which I've determined is likely less than how much I actually care about it). I've been walking around the map so far looking at everything, throwing in a bunch of NPCs, going back over the blueprints, checking original photos as well as screen grabs from the 1997 movie, and I think I've come to a conclusion.

At present, I am using the ever ubiquitous 16unit = 1foot measurement found everywhere online. But it feels too big. Part of that is described in various places because the player's eye level is around 4feet, while the model overall is around 5, if I recall correctly.

I had previously toyed with changing the scale to 12 units = 1foot, and I did find that the scale seemed more fitting, but it would mean a buttload of work. In addition, it would mean many areas fore and aft of the ship would either be inaccessible due to dimensions being smaller than the player collision hull (32units), or I'd have to enlarge these sections quite a bit, which would also screw up the scale.

Spending quite a bit of time walking around the map I've found now I think what bothers me the most about the scale is the height. Previously I found even rooms - such as the bridge - were far too big, not just tall - but looking at the blueprints again, some of the scale starts to show. For instance, the bridge is just over 5 stations long. At that part of the ship, stations are 36 inches apart. Which means the bridge is just over 15feet long, or around 4 and a half meters long. Well, when I take that information and go back in game, I kinda feel like I got it right.

While I cant seem to find a reference at the moment to the height of the bridge (or any other Boat Deck level location), it seems I had used 8'6" previously. Given other decks are generally 9' tall, I think this is an appropriate setting.

So, long story short (too late!) I think what I will experiment with a bit is going on a scale of 16units = 1 horizontal foot, and 14 units = 1 vertical foot.

With that in mind, I'm posting the screenshot below, which on the left shows what that scale would look like for the bridge (again, 8'6" tall), and on the right is the original 16unit. The actual total difference is only 17 units (136 v 119).

I think at this point if I'm not happy with the new 14unit vertical foot scale, I'll stick to what I have and move forward with this.

Where I had left off last time - before getting all caught up in this scale issue - was that I was hitting the brush limit. I had started converting some things into Propper models and that seems to work well for what I'm trying to achieve. I still have things I will be converting so that I can then continue working on the ship. Not counting passenger rooms, most other spaces have been built with the exception of areas in the Orlop and Tank Top (engine rooms, cargo/food stores, etc). Once I've got everything built I'll want to add in some minor details to rooms, as you see in the shot above I added telemotors and wheel. Extremely preliminary, but eventually I want some kind of detail in here. Right now I'm thinking that likely all this detail will be Propper models. Ill also be converting the staircases (both Grand and both 2nd class) to models as well. Should give me back about 500 brushes.

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