Snarkpit Forum Index » Maps » [map] de_747 BETA
[map] de_747 BETA
1
2 next page »
Post Reply
Quote
 Re: [map] de_747 BETA
Posted by Captain Terror on Sun Mar 11th at 12:50am 2012

This is a a discussion topic for the map "de_747 BETA" by Captain Terror which can be found here

Map description:

Bomb defusal entry for TWHL Competiton 32 - Re-Invent a CS Classic.

More images

Objective
CTs must try to save TWHL Flight 32 and the adjacent fuel depot from destruction!

Credits
Everything is Valve afaik, besides a handful of textures.

THANKS
TWHL
Cfoust, for Propper and good support in forums.
The Mighty Atom, for HLLP and some help beta testing.
Archie, for always answering my questions.
=]

Notes
Most doors and windows on the plane and terminal are breakable.

Originally, this was supposed to be a hostage rescue map, but i had a really hard time getting the hosties to follow me through the plane. SO i took up a TWHL member's suggestion to make it a bomb defusal map, instead of trying to figure out the navigation mesh.

The plane is more or less a complete 747-400, with some obvious liberties taken like the air stairs in the back and some other things. All the seats and galleys are placed right where they would be on the real plane. (I DID take out a few rows of seats here and there, to allow better player movility)

This is not the newest version of the map(i probably have at least 6-7 "imporved" revisons), but this was the last one I was able to compile with playable fps, despite all my efforts at optimization.

I will do my best to release a newer version with the updates and playbable fps, but compiling is quite cagey at this stage, and i'm not promising anything.

Map screenshots:

Screenshots for: de_747 BETA




Quote
 Re: [map] de_747 BETA
Posted by haymaker on Mon Mar 12th at 1:17am 2012

Super cool! I don't play CSS but I'll fire it up for this. From the screens I'm seeing a lot of brushwork where I would be expecting models, but that's just my own experience.

I've always wondered about airport maps, and why there weren't more, but I chalked it up to post-911 isms.



Quote
 Re: [map] de_747 BETA
Posted by Captain Terror on Mon Mar 12th at 2:48am 2012

oh if it were up to me much more stuff would be models, but then you take more of an fps hit compared to func_details or world geometry, E.g., if i change the concrete wall brushes on the left of the map to prop_statics with fade distance, the game drops like 30 fps!

Thanks for your interest in my map all criticism/comments are welcome! =)



Quote
 Re: [map] de_747 BETA
Posted by sMeLLyCaT on Mon Mar 12th at 8:00pm 2012

I was always a big fan of cs_747 so I don't know why it never made it to CS:S.


As I'm writing on my laptop and wont be at a computer for some time to actually view the map in-game all I can take things from is via screenshots. To me it looks like your GFX are turned right down to boost your FPS as high as possible (which most of us do to play) but they make for really poor looking screenshots. May I suggest creating some high quality shots with your in-game (and GFX card) settings turned way up - although it has been many years since I've loaded CS:S and the engine may just be more dated than I remember...

Are you familiar with VIS blocking? I only map for GoldSRC but I imagine if you change the concrete blocks to models then VIS draws everything behind them increasing your FPS, models are best for complex geometry. Also - can you see inside the windows from any distance? You might be far better off making the windows non-breakable and (I think) in source you can make windows opaque at a certain distance (some Level of detail functions or something) which should dramatically improve your FPS outdoors if it stops drawing inside all at once...

I can try to find out where I saw the tutorial on this if you're interested.



Further comments will have to wait till I get home. But good luck optimising. smiley



Quote
 Re: [map] de_747 BETA
Posted by sMeLLyCaT on Mon Mar 12th at 8:25pm 2012

It's not the tutorial I remember, however it's what I was looking for. Apologies if you already know all this stuff but it might be some use I hope.

Quoting "http://www.steamgamers.com/forum/tutorials-instructions/26872-optimizing-guide-could-usefull-take-look.html"
Func_areaportalwindow

The func_areaportalwindow differs from the func_areaportal in two ways:

It has no in- or outputs
It opens or closes depending on what distance the player is at
It is clientside, meaning that it can be open for player 1, while being closed for player 2.
Wow, what was that second one? Opens or closes depending on the distance? Yes. Aren't you excited now? You should be. These areaportals have two properties, the "Fade start distance" and the "Fade end distance". The idea is that when you are far from a window you can't really see through it, so the window brush is visible only. But, as you come closer, the window brush becomes more and more translucent untill it is completely see-through. This areaportal is closed when the window-brush is visible, and as soon as the window-brush becomes more translucent (as the player moves from out of the "Fade end distance" to the "Fade start distance" ) the areaportalwindow opens and the 'outside' is rendered.

...

full description on webpage




Quote
 Re: [map] de_747 BETA
Posted by Captain Terror on Mon Mar 12th at 11:46pm 2012

Thank you smellycat! i will try to up my gfx settings and see how it affects performance. Also, i scaled the entire floor to 1.0 for performance reasons, yet i will try scaling it down to .5 or something and test how that too effects performance!

Areaportals are definiteley on my list of stuff to try as well. Also scheduled on the optimization list are propper_lod, changing brushwork to displacements, and using env_fogcontroller to limit the "maxviewable" distance of the entire map.

Thanks again for the comments! =)



Quote
 Re: [map] de_747 BETA
Posted by sMeLLyCaT on Tue Mar 13th at 12:36pm 2012

It's not so much to see how it effects performance as it's pretty much a given that it'll just make the map unplayable if your PC spec isn't up to it. It's more about creating clean looking images that showcase the map and your work a bit better.

Good luck with the areaportals, I hope it will make a noticeable improvement on FPS. smiley



Quote
 Re: [map] de_747 BETA
Posted by Riven on Tue Mar 13th at 4:02pm 2012

Hey, pretty cool cross-over job. I'll have to play and rate this one when I get the chance. Looks like there is a lot to see!

Thanks for sending it our way.


Blog: www.playingarchitecture.net
LinkedIn: Eric Lancon
Twitter:@Riven202



Quote
 Re: [map] de_747 BETA
Posted by G4MER on Tue Mar 13th at 9:59pm 2012

I downloaded this and tested it out.

It is really open, and basic. Great idea, but needs some major upgrades and work. Why did you make all the doors breakables instead of doors? The tunnel under the plane really has no use other than to snake around to the same point.. maybe make 2 separate exits near the plane. The sky box around the map is really well done. The planes taking off is a nice touch.

You did a really nice job on the plane its self, but the airport needs work. You also did not make an overview for the map..

You could add cover on the air field in the way of a fueling truck, and a baggage car with trailers of luggage. Orange and white barrels and maybe some repair work on the tarmac. The underside could also use some work and pipes and steam to break the long empty halls. Also mark the bomb sites I think A had something but I don't recall seeing it on B. The Plane interior could also be upgraded with model seats and the cockpit is cool but is way outta scale. How do the pilots see out the window?

Needs lots of work and fixes, but it is a great idea, and your well on your way to getting a great map out to the community.



Quote
 Re: [map] de_747 BETA
Posted by Captain Terror on Thu Mar 15th at 3:26am 2012

Thank you for the comments sir, i agree on all points!

-The tunnels were a quick, last ditch effort to give the layout more dimension. I was gonna make some manhole covers by the t's, but i wanted to force them on the plane for cover. I think i'll take your advice and add more exits by the plane, or i may just get rid of them all together.

-The cockpit was done really quick before the end of the competiton deadline. I had to make some liberties in terms of scale and proportion to make the map area more playable, but i'm sure i could move the upper deck floor up a little to make the cockpit more realistic. (did you notice you can shoot the window and walk out? i wanted to keep that aspect of gameplay from the origianl smiley)

Seats: i've played around with many different methods, but i seem to get the better fps with them as func_details rather than prop statics or func_lod, and i agree they are VERY 1.6 blocky. If you have any further optimzation ideas, please share, as i'm not moving forward on this unless i can do it with playable fps. (how was your fps btw?)

Really, really appreciate the comments and the playthough sir, I'll do my best to impress you with the next version! =)



Quote
 Re: [map] de_747 BETA
Posted by Wild Card on Thu Mar 15th at 2:12pm 2012

I havent played the map, and there's no in-plane screenshots.. but whats the layout inside? You mentioned you based on a 747-400 series. I dont know if this would help performance, but what if you made the plane a 400 combi model? With the cargo space on the rear of the main deck as well as the lower deck:



You could also take liberties in the division between classes to help block visibility (rather than just use curtains maybe introduce a bend, or something)

The cargo area at the rear will have a lot less brush work than the cabin area.



Quote
 Re: [map] de_747 BETA
Posted by Captain Terror on Thu Mar 15th at 4:16pm 2012

Ha neat WC, i never knew that model existed! That's kinda the way the back of the plane is now anyway though, since i omitted the last section of seats and galleys, and just left bathrooms back there. A VERY cool idea to put cargo back there though, i think i just might smiley

There are a couple images of the interior if you click on "More Images" right underneath the pic thumbnails.



Quote
 Re: [map] de_747 BETA
Posted by Wild Card on Fri Mar 16th at 1:12am 2012

Looking at all your pics.. lotsa duplicates it seems :P But I do like # 67 a lot. How many brushes are in the plane?

A few points about the plane:

- unless Im mistaken, but 747s do not have landing lights on the wing tip leading edges like yours has
- landing lights wouldnt be turned on while the airplane is at the gate
- the APU (Auxiliary Power Unit), a small turbine at the tail of the plane, would be running to provide power while the engines are off. You could add a sound effect there (assuming you didnt do this) and maybe some trail heat exhaust
- your choice of interior textures in the plane and terminal is a little cold and not very inviting. Your 747 looks more like a military transport
- the top of the nose, and the cockpit, arnt in the shape of a typical 747, the angle is too shallow
- you should probably add some ground equipment: a tug, pylons around the engines, a few luggage carts.
- the terminal building's main level should probably be raised a bit.

If you really wanted to be fancy and sneaky, you could add an entrance into the lower level galley via one of the main landing gear wheel wells.



Quote
 Re: [map] de_747 BETA
Posted by Captain Terror on Fri Mar 16th at 5:23am 2012

All very perceptive and correct points WC, and even more impressive you got all that from the screen shots smiley

Liberties i took with certain things (like the landing lights and airstarirs) were done on purpose, but some things you mentioned like the nose of the plane being too long was totally accidental, and was a product of how i modeled the plane. (where the black textured nose starts at the fuselage should really be the End of the nose, if that makes sense). Again very percptive! =)

There is in fact an apu sound by at the tail of the plane but i definitely need to add some visual distortion in the form of a sprte or something to complete the illusion.

Your are also correct in noticing the terminal is undersiZed proportionally in terms of height and very under developed. The terminal is supposed to have beeen designed in the 50s and under a transitional construction while a new terminal is being finished(in the 3dskybox). None of the construction elements were ever built becasue i ran out of resources very quickly, mostly due to the plane smiley

And finally i would LOVE to add a pushback, more containers and carts, tugs, lav trucks etc(especially to add cover to the map), but first i have to sort the dwindling fps in my map. I've did 20 compiles (at least) since this release, and everyone has poorer fps despite me proppering things optimizing every way i know how.

SO, i think to be able to add a lot of the normal support equipemtn and accoutrements, i will need to eliminate some other parts of the map, or i have to find a way to make less expensive models/brushwork/displacements to make more room. smiley





Quote
 Re: [map] de_747 BETA
Posted by Captain Terror on Fri Mar 16th at 5:25am 2012

Quoting Captain Terror
All very perceptive and correct points WC, and even more impressive you got all that from the screen shots smiley

Liberties i took with certain things (like the landing lights and airstarirs) were done on purpose, but some things you mentioned like the nose of the plane being too long was totally accidental, and was a product of how i modeled the plane. (where the black textured nose starts at the fuselage should really be the End of the nose, if that makes sense). Again very percptive! =)

There is in fact an apu sound by at the tail of the plane but i definitely need to add some visual distortion in the form of a sprte or something to complete the illusion.

Your are also correct in noticing the terminal is undersiZed proportionally in terms of height and very under developed. The terminal is supposed to have beeen designed in the 50s and under a transitional construction while a new terminal is being finished(in the 3dskybox). None of the construction elements were ever built becasue i ran out of resources very quickly, mostly due to the plane smiley

And finally i would LOVE to add a pushback, more containers and carts, tugs, lav trucks etc(especially to add cover to the map), but first i have to sort the dwindling fps in my map. I've did 20 compiles (at least) since this release, and everyone has poorer fps despite me proppering things optimizing every way i know how.

SO, i think to be able to add a lot of the things i really want to, I will have to find a way to make less expensive models/brushwork/displacements, or try some new way of optimizing to make some more room smiley





Quote
 Re: [map] de_747 BETA
Posted by Wild Card on Fri Mar 16th at 3:13pm 2012

How many brushes in your plane? In the terminal?

If you want, you could remove some exterior areas (such as many your tunnels?) if you focus on the plane more. Make the Ts spawn all over the aircraft as opposed to just at the tail.

Is there a performance difference (improvement) if you ditch the rain?

You mentioned this is in CS 1.6. What if you make this in source? (Why did you make it in 1.6?)



Quote
 Re: [map] de_747 BETA
Posted by Captain Terror on Fri Mar 16th at 4:33pm 2012

lol i said my seats are very blocky like 1.6, not that this is a 1.6 map smiley

I have not tried compiling without rain, but i will now. I'm also wondering about having too many ambient_genereics and blinking lights, but i didn't see anything under +showbudget.(it's mostly all "unnacounted")


I don't know how many brushes there are in the map, but is there an easy way to check using hammer? (i'd check right now but i'm compiling).

I think i DID find an fps breakthough finally though that i'm currently testing, and that is just upping the texture scale on certain things can possibly make a BIG differnece in performance. (kicking myself i didn't try this sooner!)



Quote
 Re: [map] de_747 BETA
Posted by Wild Card on Fri Mar 16th at 4:44pm 2012

In VHE you can check in Map -> Show Information

You can also highlight your entire airplane and get a more-or-less accurate count (excluding models and groupings)

I'll have to load up the map when I get home and take a look at it.



Quote
 Re: [map] de_747 BETA
Posted by Captain Terror on Fri Mar 16th at 5:50pm 2012

ya idk, i tried show information, and it says like 16,800 "solids", so idk that probably includes tools textures too? So by solids it means brushes?



Quote
 Re: [map] de_747 BETA
Posted by Wild Card on Fri Mar 16th at 5:53pm 2012

Yea, solids are your brushes. 16,800?? Im not sure how it counts those, but I though the hard limit of 8192 was for solids.

For instance, the show info on my Titanic is:

Solids: 8500
Faces: 53,650
Point Entities: 21
Solid Entities: 161
Unique Textures: 26
Texture Memory: 11.49 MB




1
2 next page »
Post Reply