fishy3dm
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Re: fishy3dm
Posted by fishy on Wed Apr 28th at 11:46am 2004


just a short post this time. i dont really have the motivation to write out the same stuff that i already lost twice today.

this was my first attemp at making a dm map, and ended up getting shelved when the size of the layout started confusing me. i couldn't visualise what was connected to where, so i took a break from it.if i remember right, the r's were causing me some concerns too, but i've been working on them, and they're almost reasonable now.

there's a list of things i want to attend to, and i'm pretty sure you guys will give me some more, but what i really need is some sort of coherent theme that can tie the various parts of the map together. if i come up with something decent, i might even make this an entry to the competition. [damn you Reno, this could easily have been a military storage facility ] but strong theme or not, once i come up with one i can start on filling some of the empty rooms, and giving 'downstairs' a makeover.

even though this was made with dm in mind, the layout may not be ideal. i'd be interested to hear if anyone thinks it would be more suited for some other mod.

as said in the maps description, people with dusty old installs may not see the trees rendered properly. sorry 'bout that.

unzipping to either your valve/ or tfc/ folder should work. (there's an info_tf_detect in there too, so i could use my amx installation, which is only set up to work on tfc)





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Re: fishy3dm
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Apr 28th at 12:30pm 2004


ok, now i am confused, is this an HLDM map, or a DoD map, cause i cannot get the zip to install into steam correctly

[edit] OK, its an HLDM map..

*wipes brow*

will post soonish

[addsig]




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Re: fishy3dm
Posted by fishy on Wed Apr 28th at 1:03pm 2004


it's not a DoD map. it has very few mod specific entities, but it will work in either tfc or standard hl.

unzip it to SteamApps/U@yourmail/half-life/valve and startup a server, selecting fishy3dm_c3 as the map to play.

alternatively, you can unzip it to SteamApps/U@yourmail/team fortress classic/tfc

they should both work fine.





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Re: fishy3dm
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Apr 28th at 1:07pm 2004


well, i assume the file structure is sound, but after my first DoD failure, i opted to place the files myself.. all is well on that now, but... this map is very new, i need to be able to noclip around.. does anyone know how to accomplish this via steam???

[edit] solved it.. you must begin via the "start/run" menu..

C:SteamSteam.exe -silent -applaunch 70 -dev -console +map fishy3dm_c3

if anyone else is interested, this is the procedure

[addsig]




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Re: fishy3dm
Posted by fishy on Wed Apr 28th at 1:14pm 2004


ah, you beat me to it.





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Re: fishy3dm
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Apr 28th at 2:52pm 2004


Insert obligatory warning message here:

First off Fish, i would like to say, for all the faults i saw, i saw so much more potential, this map has the makings of a great map, in fact it has the makings of about 4 great maps .. you seem to have fallen into the n00b trap of, your vision exceeds your capability to complete.. seriously, i am not even sure that i found everything this map has to offer, its just so freakin huge ..
its as if, you attempted to recreate an entire city, instead of a DM map... if it is possible, i would try hard to subdivide it into more manageable maps, and in this way, make it less of a burden on you..

anyways, lets see how badly i can discourage you today.. as usual i will mostly focus on what i feel needs fixed.. hopefully other sets of eyes will follow suit.. as i said, i see so much potential, i would like to see some portion of this map completed


this walkway, extends behind me between the two buildings.. it looks OK behind me, but the ledge here looks wrong.. you need some sort of a transition, about where i am standing i suppose.. possible a guardrail also



light 1 looks great, light 2 looks out of theme/character to the map


another one of those no fuel consuming fires my advice, reduce the fire to a slow trickle, and put some smut on them


dark, so dark that i cannot even remember why i took the screen shot.. perhaps its only dark, but i honestly cannot recall


door opens backward, not a crime, but funny none the less


didn't really notice, till i got here, but those lights are really huge, when compared to the tunnel beneath.. the tunnel, is of normal dimensions, so comparing it to the light, gives you some notion of the sizes involved


the large open areas, have much potential, for some quality fragging, but the dim lights.. i know its night, but didn't anyone pay their electric bill


more dark, and again, i cannot recall why i took the shot.. possibly only due to the dark


OOppss wrong render mode


yup its dark again, but in this screen i remember.. its a very long line of sight, and almost nothing to account for the 600+ r_speeds.. i found many long sight lines throughout this map.. another common malady of the inexperienced mapper.


this door is much to small for a fast getaway, and leads to a hole.. nothing more.. yet i assume


i may not have mentioned this yet, but the plant life throughout this map is superb.. its actually the highpoint IMO.. they alone set the atmosphere.. i prolly didn't get enuff examples of what i mean, but the plants none the less make this map worth looking through..


any time you fall down steps, or a ramp, it is too steep, these steps are much to steep IMO


i know its not apparent from the screen shot, yeah cause its too dark, but i actually favored this area best.. i like the architecture, and it is one of the reasons i feel the map needs finished, most time i just write off a map this big, cause i know that most times a new mapper will be overwhelmed, once someone more experienced, begins pointing out the shortfalls in their hard work.. but seriously, i think this map can be fixed.. and architecture like this area is my proof


and then fishy said "LET THERE BE LIGHT" and there was light.. isn't playing god just wonderful..


another very interesting area.. has some vertical potential..



now i am confused, i know the map compiled, the light variations mostly tell me so, but how did this HOM get here?? its not a hole, so is it possibly an invalid solid? or maybe a null texture??



the entrance leading to the HOM



endless stairwells, almost added IMO just to connect the over sized map together with... large, or overlarge maps always suffer from connectivity issues, and without these endless halls and stairwells you couldn't get from place to place..
IMO if you must build an endless corridor, its a sure sigh, you either built it to large, or you planned your connectivity wrong beforehand.



wrong render again



a very,very long corredor


this area, seems an entirely different theme, and would make the beginning of a totally different map.. combining the two, needlessly increased the maps dimensions.. its not by any means, a bad area, its just not needed to the map above ground.


more of that awesome architecture.. don't misunderstand, i have seen better, but not usually from so new a mapper.. very nice indeed


an alcove of crates


another endless hallway, i assume.. its to dark and i cannot recall


more of that secondary theme.. this area would go so well, in a separate map.. sadly, all it does here is bloat the map..

as i already stated, i see so much potential.. i hope the author takes it to heart and subdivides this map a bit.. it sure would be a waste to scrap it now..

nice job fish

[addsig]




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Re: fishy3dm
Posted by fishy on Wed Apr 28th at 5:10pm 2004


cheers Orph. that was relatively painless compared to some that i've seen.
i'll try not to lose track of the pic numbers as i make my excuses.
pic 1. i've been thinking about some plants in pots there
pic 2+3. i really should have more lights pre-fabbed
pic 4. i was never 100% about that fire
pic 5. as with some other areas, the texlight that i used there had its values lowered in my rad file a few weeks ago. i'd forgoten all about it. the next compile should show some improvement.
pic 6. good spot. i never noticed that before. possibly 'cause i always used the window.
pic 7. the oversized light. maybe if i moved it further up the wall, the size wouldn't be so noticable.
pic 8. the area that the ledge in pic 1 overlooks. possibly getting some park benches and low level lighting.
pic 9. it's a big dark patch on the wall. there's a rock splitting the face of the wall, and borking the lighting.
pic10. hmph, /me bad
pic11. i'm running out of option to reduce r's in that corner of the map. just outside that window is a fairly large area.
pic12. it was originaly a ladder to the level below, but when i added the ladder/rope thingy, i blocked off the exit to the lower level, with a view to extending the ladder down into one of the underground areas.
pic13. cheers. i'm still not convinced that the trees are the finished article yet, but they do seem to hold their shape quite well.
pic14. old stairways into cellers are usually quite steep. slowing to a walk is normally a good idea when trying to decend them.
pic15. thats only the first basement level, or maybe even street level with some of the map. i'm seriously considering what you said about splitting the map up, but there are a few basement areas i'd like to save, so that one would probably stay.
pic16. the area that i'm least happy with atm. i dont see it staying this way through the next compile.
pic17. i should probably make the elevator work.
pic18. it's null textured.
pic19. just for some extra deapth.
pic20. i'd planned on leaving plenty of grens on/near those stairs. the stairs themselves are decent protection from bullets etc, but grens can get lobbed through the slats. but your right about how its only there to join bits together.
pic21. again, hmph
pic22. every time i see that tunnel i promise that i'll put some alcoves in it, for weapons placements. but tbh, it feels like a chore.
pic23. there's an underwater tunnel at 'thin' end of that cave. it takes you into the sewers from the other side, as well as accessing some other routes. there were enough long hallways, so i wanted something a bit more open. if the map does get chopped, this is an area that will go.
pic24. an area that i'd like to keep
pic25. awww. thems the only crates in the whole map. almost. they're there for access, btw.
pic26. lighting, as you can see, isn't my strong point.
pic27. i feel there's something very flat about that area. maybe it's just the lighting, but it's an area i'd be willing to lose should i go with the suggestion of cutting the map up.
i'll need to think some more on that. in a way it would feel like a relief to scrap the sewers/caves/tunnels

thanks for taking the time Orph. much appreciated.





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Re: fishy3dm
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Apr 28th at 5:17pm 2004


cool, i am satisfied if you are.. when i saw you come and go so fast, i thought "uh-oh" i did it again..

usually only the mad leave so fast..

be good

[addsig]




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Re: fishy3dm
Posted by fishy on Wed Apr 28th at 5:20pm 2004


hehe, after my experience with the snarkpits post-eater today, i thought it wise to copy and paste from notepad.



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Re: fishy3dm
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Apr 28th at 5:24pm 2004


? posted by fishy
hehe, after my experience with the snarkpits post-eater today, i thought it wise to copy and paste from notepad.

you think "I" trusted?? i wrote your critique via notepad myself.. was no way i was entrusting 26 photo's to a message window that sends text to the ether

[addsig]




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Re: fishy3dm
Posted by Gorbachev on Thu Apr 29th at 1:42am 2004


I really get the impression that there are 2 maps there. One is very mediterranean with an Italian-esque feel. And the other is some dank US big-city subway/sewer circut kind of theme. The images seem either really impressive or really bland. It's all a balance I suppose. [addsig]



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Re: fishy3dm
Posted by beer hunter on Thu Apr 29th at 7:34pm 2004


bloomin' heck thats the biggest map and critique i've seen on SP

IMO it is far too big and complex for multiplayer, it'll work better as a non-linear single player level. If you're sticking mith MP then i would only use the best looking bits - buildings, sewer sections with vaulted ceilings and the empty room between sewer/ground level with vaulted ceilings - that could be made into a wine cellar.

The overall style was ok and i didn't notice too much of a clash between industrial/mediterranean, you get modern bits tacked onto old buildings in Italy anwyay.

Nice lookin' trees, some detail touches and hedges which i'm gonna steal for one of my maps

.




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Re: fishy3dm
Posted by fishy on Fri Apr 30th at 6:02am 2004


strange you should mention a wine cellar. i'd all but decided to turn the whole map into some sort of big wine factory. i could put some sort of fish-head juice extraction machine in one of the empty buildings to provide the secret ingredient for the wine.

i already made a start on some of it.





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Re: fishy3dm
Posted by JFry on Fri Apr 30th at 10:27am 2004


looks good. nothing too thrilling but its presented well. The barrels are very realistic looking.



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Re: fishy3dm
Posted by beer hunter on Fri Apr 30th at 5:51pm 2004


? quote:
i'd all but decided to turn the whole map into some sort of big wine factory. i could put some sort of fish-head juice extraction machine in one of the empty buildings


heh, it just felt like a wine cellar type of room. Nice idea about turning it into a wine factory, it'll give the map a coherent theme.

Fish heads, yuck ! use anti-freeze, its more classy




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Re: fishy3dm
Posted by Myrk- on Sat May 1st at 2:00am 2004


Make it darker in the cellar. [addsig]



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Re: fishy3dm
Posted by fishy on Sat May 1st at 6:35am 2004


hehe, yer Myrk, it's really a bit darker in there than the pic suggests. i used some contrast balance to make it a little easier to see.

now to make some spiders webs.





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Re: fishy3dm
Posted by fishy on Fri Jun 4th at 10:47pm 2004


no spiders webs yet, but some bumpage with new screens instead. i'll try to figure out what resources i've used, and pack them together for upload.

now where did i put resgen?.........





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Re: fishy3dm
Posted by Gorbachev on Sat Jun 5th at 1:51am 2004


I really like the staircase in the last pic, but the texture is so blurry and undefined compared to the rest of the area. Try and find a more detailed grain/wood texture? [addsig]



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Re: fishy3dm
Posted by fishy on Sat Jun 5th at 11:26am 2004


? posted by Gorbachev
I really like the staircase in the last pic, but the texture is so blurry and undefined compared to the rest of the area. Try and find a more detailed grain/wood texture?

i agree. and i'll even try to apply the grain in the right direction when i do.

the last incarnation of this map was described by Orph as being a bit 'bloated'. i think he hit the nail right on the head with that one. so i got rid of most of the underground areas, except for a cellar or two, and the layout is now a lot more managable.

new zip now available from the maps profile page. comments and crits welcome.






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