Dungeon Death
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Re: Dungeon Death
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Fri Nov 5th at 5:32am 2004


Well, now that I?ve managed to extract my foot from my mouth?


This shot is pretty representative of the general texturing/architecture/lighting level of this map. Suffice it to say it isn?t very high.



This is a nice touch as far as it goes. It explains where you came from, which is something that is often overlooked.



I don?t appreciate being trapped. If you are going to setup things like this, just kill the player. Also, these halls are WAY too narrow. they are simply irritating to navigate.



Um.. Yeah. I?m inside a cramped little cylinder with no lights in it, yet there is light?



This is the best constructed are I found, but you should note that you have too many env_shooters here. My HL crashed twice when walls collapsed.



Flat lighting, simple architecture, lighting errors on the pillars, and boring texturing all let this are down.



The stained glass window is a very nice touch.




Your little death messages are kind of amusing, but it does get kind of old to die with no warning.


It?s best not to expose unlighted edges.



The sword is kind cool, but it would be cooler if it didn?t entirely replace the crowbar. Now I?m going to have to delete this model to get the crowbar back. Ditto for the bible/satchels.

It?s an interesting concept. I think it would be very cool to see a good first-person dungeon crawl in HL, but I?m sorry to say I can?t think of much else positive to say. You obviously have some significant technical mastery of HL since you were able to put together some relatively complex entity setups, but the visual execution was, to put it nicely, somewhat less than desirable. Texture misalignments are rampant, the architecture is rudimentary, and the lighting gives me seizures. In far as game play goes, I can?t say much there that is good ther either. It is far too easy to get stuck, traps that kill with no warning are irritating and everywhere, and corridors are so cramped as to make navigation difficult. If there is a redeeming factor to this whole effort it is the weapon replacements, but as I mentioned, even those are a source of irritation because they replace existing items. I think if you want to do something like that you really need your own mod folder.

I say take this idea and run with it. This could be allot of fun if you were to spend about 500 times more effort on it next time.

[addsig]




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Re: Dungeon Death
Posted by Captain P on Fri Nov 5th at 8:09am 2004


Guess what... I just took a template mod folder and threw all the stuff in there...

But you're right, TB, a mod folder is always handy when you're using other models and generally just a lot of extra resources.
[addsig]




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Re: Dungeon Death
Posted by Dark Tree on Fri Nov 5th at 9:00pm 2004


Where can I get a template MOD folder? I realize you prolly made it on your own...but how do you get it....is there a thread somewhere I can read about making this my own mod?

Edit:

What is an env_shooter? I never used an entity by the name of that...I don't think...but I DID know that HL crashed occasionnaly at the same spot as you did...though I don't know why

[addsig]




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Re: Dungeon Death
Posted by Captain P on Fri Nov 5th at 9:17pm 2004


All a mod folder needs is, obviously, a folder, and a liblist.gam file within. Sure, you would also place a maps and models folder within this mod folder, and more stuff, but the liblist.gam is the most important one.
I'd advise you to take a look at how the valve and/or cstrike folders are organized, and how they filled in their liblist.gam. It's not really hard to find out.

An env_shooter shoots models or sprites, depending on how you set it. At the VERC there's a good entity list wich covers all of the HL entities. Go and take a look whenever you want to know something about a specific entity. Most of them come with example maps too.
[addsig]




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Re: Dungeon Death
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Fri Nov 5th at 9:29pm 2004


? quoting Dark Tree

What is an env_shooter? I never used an entity by the name of that...I don't think...but I DID know that HL crashed occasionnaly at the same spot as you did...though I don't know why

I was assuming you were using a shooter because of the large number of concrete gibs that get spawned when the walls break. My experience has been that lots of gibs produces crashes, hence my assumption that this was the problem. I bet if you get rid of the or "gib model" or whatever key it is in the func_breakable the crashes will stop. If there is a way to specify the number of gibs, keep it low. I don't use breakables much as you can tell.

[addsig]




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Re: Dungeon Death
Posted by Dark Tree on Mon Nov 8th at 9:12pm 2004


Hey guys...

My map is now marked 85%...I had added some dramatic changes to my map based on all of your critiques/screenshots. Thus far I have:

Made the walls wider

Made the game a mod

re-textured the dungeon and church areas

fixed the crash error upon entering the church

removed a lot of the dynamic lights, making them normal

made more dynamic mm's in the church and dungeon area

Added warnings for all traps (so you won't die so unexpectadly)

Removed unlit edges so they can't be seen

Fixed the lighting gfx errors on the pillars in the church

Made the lighting less flat in the church and dungeon

Made it more realistic in the pillar so that if you see light in there, you know why

Aligned the brick texture on the staircase

I will change the ending so that the only out isn't death, to make the game more fun

I am also looking up reference pictures, to make my dungeon more convincing

So...that is most of my chages thus far but I now have some bugs to work out...like...I can't figure out why my func_illusionary's are fullbright even with rad compile...Why would they do that? They are just normal fun_illusionarys with rendermode: texture fx: 255 ......it is a vine tex included in the hl.wad so it isn't some weird custom tex, either.

Also....I posted a new map editing question in the forums....how do I add an autosave function in my SP mod?

I will post updated screenshots tommorrow.....I am trying to make this map re-playable...so it will be worth going through again, even if you already have done so already! IT should be different enough to see if it is any better...plus...it is a mod, so you don't have to worry about replacing the crowbars/satchels/sounds, either!

[addsig]




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Re: Dungeon Death
Posted by Dark Tree on Tue Nov 9th at 7:26pm 2004


New Screenshots are up compare/Contrast with old ones!

Added light/changed tex

A little better lighting/a little more detail/different tex

A new door I am working with

Aligned the tex on the bricks/changed tex

Darker/different colors/more detail

Hopefully by Friday I should have the newer/better beta of the map. There are lots of better changes from the old one....refer to the previous post

[addsig]




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Re: Dungeon Death
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Tue Nov 9th at 9:34pm 2004


lighting =

I can't say I like your texture choice for the ceiling of the church type area, or the structural detail really, but it is an improvement.

[addsig]




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Re: Dungeon Death
Posted by Captain P on Tue Nov 9th at 10:02pm 2004


Exactly my words, TB.

I would add that I still think most area's are too blocky and flat. But lighting indeed has greatly improved.
[addsig]




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Re: Dungeon Death
Posted by Dark Tree on Wed Nov 10th at 6:43pm 2004


OK....I will try too make things less blocky and flat....and change the ceiling texture....what do you guys suggest for a better texture in there and in my map.....? Should I just go back n' browse wadfather? [addsig]



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Re: Dungeon Death
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Wed Nov 10th at 8:26pm 2004


I think the texture would look okay as long as the support structuring looked more realistic. What you have no doesn't look much like real architecture. I suggest you take a field trip down to your local church and look at how it's put together. Either that or crawl up into your attic and take a look at how roof tress's are put together. [addsig]



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Re: Dungeon Death
Posted by Crono on Wed Nov 10th at 9:05pm 2004


? quoting Tracer BulletI think the texture would look okay as long as the support structuring looked more realistic. What you have no doesn't look much like real architecture. I suggest you take a field trip down to your local church and look at how it's put together. Either that or crawl up into your attic and take a look at how roof tress's are put together.


Your grammar broke the thread.

(There is an extra page that doesn't exist.)

EDIT:
(There was an extra page that didn't exist.) [addsig]




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Re: Dungeon Death
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Wed Nov 10th at 10:22pm 2004


Yeah, I don't know what happened. I couldn't view anything but the first page.

Dark, here is a screen of what I think a dungeon should be.

That took me about an hour to put together, including finding the textures on wadfather etc. I know this isn't an example of church architecture, but I think you were doing better there than in the dungeons themselves. See how I have some solid stone pillars and supporting beams that look as though they might actually hold something up? it really helps develop the sense that this is a real place and not just computer graphics. Obviously this scene is not perfect, but I think it's a good example of the LOD you should be trying for.

I've given it a wide aspect ratio so that it feels oppressive and cramped even though it is really quite spacious. This I think adds to the feeling of being underground. note also that the ceiling is rough, and looks as though a piece might fall and crush you any minute... (speaking of traps)

On further reflection I think my pillars are actually too slender. If i were to make this into an actual level, I'd want to revise them to have more of a massive presence.

[addsig]



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Re: Dungeon Death
Posted by Dark Tree on Wed Nov 10th at 10:34pm 2004


Awesome thank you very much for taking time out to do what you have done to aid me in my 'quest'. The final product of this map will be kickass......

....speaking of which...HL2 comes out in about 6 days....is it still gonna be cool to map/play HL1 stuff? Because this map won't be done for a little bit if I wanna make as cool as I originally planned...

also....what map is that a screenie from...did you JUST make that?....as an example?...you guys are not getting paid enough....lol....if you want me to host a file or something sometime...I am currently making/managing everything on my new website...I already host someone elses files from this site

[addsig]




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Re: Dungeon Death
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Wed Nov 10th at 10:42pm 2004


I may just take you up on the hosting offer at some point in the future. If I were you, I'd jump for HL2, especially with your proclivity for traps. I should think the physics engine would be a godsend.

As for the map, yes, I made it just as an example. I'm a slightly depressed, unemployed, living with my parents, college graduate. I've got nothing better to do. Glad I could be of help.

[addsig]




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Re: Dungeon Death
Posted by Dark Tree on Wed Nov 10th at 10:48pm 2004


Of course I will map for HL2....my question was...should I finish this for HL1? Or leave it be....Is it worth it to finish an HL1 map? OR should I port it to HL2.....will it be possible to open HL1 Rmfs in Hammer4?

[addsig]



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Re: Dungeon Death
Posted by Gwil on Thu Nov 11th at 1:28am 2004


? quote:
? quoting Tracer BulletI think the texture would look okay as long as the support structuring looked more realistic. What you have no doesn't look much like real architecture. I suggest you take a field trip down to your local church and look at how it's put together. Either that or crawl up into your attic and take a look at how roof tress's are put together.


Your grammar broke the thread.

(There is an extra page that doesn't exist.)

EDIT:
(There was an extra page that didn't exist.)


Irrelevance and pedant is your middle name, huh?

Plus, I imagine taking a trip to American dungeons is fairly uninformative when tryint to research renaissance/medieval topics..

Go google "crypt" "crypt photos" "mausoleum" "cathedral" etc etc for a good view of crusade type dungeons...
[addsig]




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Re: Dungeon Death
Posted by Crono on Thu Nov 11th at 7:08am 2004


The page really was funked up before I posted that ...

How can two names be one?? How can I have ONE middle name which is both Irrelevance and Pendant? Jeez

(My middle NAMES are actually Arabic)

You know, I'd actually give advice on the map if TB didn't point everything out already.
Oh, in that quote TB was talking about the church's structure inside the map, not the dungeon's. [addsig]




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Re: Dungeon Death
Posted by ReNo on Thu Nov 11th at 1:30pm 2004


Just thought I'd chirp in with my input on the HL1/HL2 topic. Personally I'd say build it from scratch in HL2. You've been given valuable feedback here from Tracer, and if you take it on board from the start of a new level I think it will turn out much better than this one, even if you went back and added detail to the whole map. As TB said, the physics system will give you huge potential for traps, and with the high res textures and shader effects, even quite simple brushwork can look nice if kept clean and lighting is done effectively.

So yeah, I reckon you should chalk this one down to experience, and take some of the ideas on to a new map for HL2.
[addsig]




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Re: Dungeon Death
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Thu Nov 11th at 5:24pm 2004


? quoting ReNo
Just thought I'd chirp in with my input on the HL1/HL2 topic. Personally I'd say build it from scratch in HL2. You've been given valuable feedback here from Tracer, and if you take it on board from the start of a new level I think it will turn out much better than this one, even if you went back and added detail to the whole map. As TB said, the physics system will give you huge potential for traps, and with the high res textures and shader effects, even quite simple brushwork can look nice if kept clean and lighting is done effectively.

So yeah, I reckon you should chalk this one down to experience, and take some of the ideas on to a new map for HL2.

What he said. The only problem you might run into with HL2 is the probable lack of good textures right from the get go. (common CassDr.BKornflakes!)

[addsig]





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