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prison_grav
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 Re: prison_grav
Posted by thundercleese on Fri Dec 3rd at 10:06pm 2004

Just wanted to put up this map for comments. I just joined the community yesterday and this the first 3d map I have ever made. What you see so far represents about 5 hours of work since I first installed hammer.

Screenshot 1 shows the current state of the lighting and some fun with the sawblades. I realize I need fixtures for light to come from but so far when I've added objects they have turned into the giant red "ERROR" letters. Also, a lot of my light entities don't emit any light so I'm still working on that one.

Screenshot 2 shows the central 'combat' area that you can head for if you want to join the general fray. Its entirely possible to keep to the hallways though. When I playtested this on a public server most of the sawblades ended up in the corners, I'll have to do something about that. The headcrabs down there will jump around if you load the map in hl2, but in DM they just kinda sit there. You can shoot them if you want. I'd like to eventually have some light down there that might cast some interesting shadows through the grated floor. There are two spotlights there already, but they aren't working

Screenshot 3 gives an overhead view.

I'd appreciate any comments you have. This will be a work in progress as I gain some skill with hammer. Hopefully I'll eventually have something thats nice to look at and fun to play in. It might also be cool to add a basement area.

PS: I know I missed a texture in sc3, try to ignore it for now

[addsig]



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 Re: prison_grav
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Fri Dec 3rd at 10:44pm 2004

For a complete newbie this isn't too bad! Certainly better than my first attempt.

1st picture:
-Texturing is too weak and could use more variety.
-The doorways and buildings are too small. Make them bigger to give the player more room and to give yourself more room to work on the architecture.

2nd picture:
-Those headcrabs are pointless. Delete them and add more detail models around.

3rd picture:
-This should show you what to work on in future designs. All the buildings are one story tall and all the walls are too. The level is too flat with no vertical play at all, which makes it too simple and boring. People won't find this entertaining for a full map cycle. I would challenge you to begin making buildings that have multiple stories with ramps and stairways connecting everything.

The short of it is that this is crap, but it's very promising crap. Take the lessons you'll learn from this and apply them to your next attempt. Keep doing this and you'll grow as a mapper and maybe make something tremendous. If you want examples of good maps to base your work on I would suggest looking at the HL1DM maps boot_camp, stalkyard, frenzy, and crossfire to see how the multiple level combat works and how to best impliment it in your work. I would look at HL2DM map lockdown to see how DM should be handled in HL2. I would also look at overwatch to show you how to not design a map, as it has plenty of nice aspects but the big middle building has the huge disadvantage of having too few pathways up that are too easily blockable. It is always good to look at other maps for not only inspiration but to see the problems they have so you can avoid them in your maps.

[addsig]



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 Re: prison_grav
Posted by Neural Scan on Fri Dec 3rd at 11:40pm 2004

I agree Yak, this is definately a good first attempt. Why do first maps always seem to have random monsters worked into them? :/ Oh well I did it too

Yeah I suggest you read up a few of the architecture tutorials for hl1 (not the cliff/terrain ones, though, displacement makes most of those methods obsolete), and probably some basics on map design/layout, I'm pretty sure there's some lurking around. A good map needs some kind of flow. Something that keeps the players moving and possible areas which attract attention and are centers of combat. For example in Lockdown, the large room with the toilets, barrels and other random object attracts attention purely because there's an abundance of those objects to throw (toilets and sinks in particular )

I also agree on Overwatch being a bad example of a DM map. It's far too easy to camp at the top with the RPG, and the only decent part (gameplay wise) is the ground level of the building and some of the roads. It's fun to have a laugh in, but not good enough in the long run. Lockdown is superior as it has decent connectivity, balance between the use of the Grav Gun and normal weapons and it looks so much better

Of course there could be better maps, I hope you make one as good as that (Partly because Thundercleese rocks. His poor fish Mr. Tickles... at least he died happily)

Err, hope I haven't said anything wrong, I don't usually feel this smart after a post...

[addsig]



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 Re: prison_grav
Posted by thundercleese on Sat Dec 4th at 1:12am 2004

I agree that the one-storyness is boring. I'm playing with lighting now but I plan to move back to the architecture once I get some practice with that. Multiple stories would definitely make sense, especially with the prison motif. I thought I might turn the middle into a 'cafeteria' area and then extend the map too add some more interesting areas. As for good DM ideas, I'll probably use my fav dm map of all time, phobos moon in UT classic for some inspiration.

The headcrabs don't make for good scenery? . There are also only like 4 textures in the whole map right now. I was having a really hard time when I first started texturing because I was set up for CS textures, most of which don't work in HL2

Do you guys usually sketch something on paper before you start working on a map? I know when I'm in hammer I get hung up on trying to make something work and it gets in the way of my design.

I also couldn't stand playing very long in Overwatch, though I couldn't put my finger on why it wasn't fun.

Neural Scan: I guess it shows that I love the Brak Show . My fav Thundercleese moment is on the rap episode.

Thanks for the good critique guys, I'll keep all that stuff in mind.



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 Re: prison_grav
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Sat Dec 4th at 1:25am 2004

? quoting thundercleese
Do you guys usually sketch something on paper before you start working on a map? I know when I'm in hammer I get hung up on trying to make something work and it gets in the way of my design.

It depends on the person. I have found that when I draw things the designs are usually too simple and uncreative but are very doable. When I just open up hammer and go I can make awesome areas, but they usually get too complicated and impossible to finish without making a billion connecting hallways.

[addsig]



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 Re: prison_grav
Posted by Neural Scan on Sat Dec 4th at 11:42am 2004

I usually never plan out the whole thing and set the design in stone. I design some parts, move them around, connect them to other parts and whatever. Sometimes it's probably best to work from a simple and undetailed layout, showing which areas go where, then design how the room will look as you make it in Hammer.

Hell, sometimes you don't even need to plan. If you've been messing around and made a great looking room, you can just build from there and the map creates itself

[addsig]



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 Re: prison_grav
Posted by Agent Smith on Sat Dec 4th at 12:14pm 2004

Thats how most of my maps go. I've got heaps of pieces of map that I've just been playing with, and occaisionally I take a particularly good piece and start adding to it. Thats how I made paralaxion and blizzard.



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 Re: prison_grav
Posted by diablobasher on Sat Dec 4th at 12:33pm 2004

Wow, this is so much better than my first map its unbeleivable, my first map was a room, with a crappy light, a headcrab and a headcrab scientist (hl1), you spwaned with the crowbar, noticed that you were blinded by the fullbrightness, then smacked the things with a crowbar. Lol

Im only slightly better now, i really need to work on my archetecture as its not very good.

Nice attempt, texture could use a bit of doing up, as someone has said already, and for lights you can use [e]prop_static[/e] they work fine with a nice model.

Nice one

Adrian

[addsig]



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 Re: prison_grav
Posted by 7dk2h4md720ih on Sat Dec 4th at 9:01pm 2004

? quote:
The headcrabs down there will jump around if you load the map in hl2, but in DM they just kinda sit there. You can shoot them if you want.



Just so you know, the monster AI doesn't get loaded for multiplayer so this isn't a problem you can fix. Good result so far for 5 hours work, hope you keep it up.




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 Re: prison_grav
Posted by thundercleese on Sun Dec 5th at 5:01am 2004

Ok guys, fresh from some tutorial reading I have a new screenshot 2. I've recreated the map from start and the layout is much more complex (2nd story area and basement added). The hallway pictured is my experiment with what I learned in Reno's architecture tutorial. Obvious comments are that the right wall hasn't been done yet, and I think the lighting is too bright, especially when the other side is emitting too.

So fire away and let me know what you think! I like the way this is shaping up, but at this rate this map is going to take a lot longer than I originally planned to work on it.

[addsig]



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 Re: prison_grav
Posted by 7dk2h4md720ih on Sun Dec 5th at 1:55pm 2004

A huge improvement, but still lots more to go. I tend to shy away from making long strips of texture lights, as they only look good in certain settings. Also, if say you only place one texture light every 128 units (or whatever number you want), some nice shadows will be created between them. Currently your texture lights are making the hallway far too bright, which isn't doing those textures any favours. There's no real vertical detail on the wall, you might consider breaking it up with pillars or alcoves.




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 Re: prison_grav
Posted by thundercleese on Mon Dec 6th at 5:07pm 2004

Ok, I've decided that my new improved version of this map is too big to do properly. So I'm going to go back to my original crappy version and add lighting and some other small improvements and call it final. Then I'll take the underground that I've been working on and make a new map out of it, possibly adding back the other sections if it needs them. Right now the map is kinda big. This seems like my best chance of actually releasing something cool. Besides, I think prison_grav is a stupid name anyway [addsig]



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 Re: prison_grav
Posted by satchmo on Tue Dec 7th at 6:38am 2004

I agree that it's not a bad first mapping attempt. I bet your next map would be vastly better.

And regarding the pre-planning phase of the design, I find it useful to sketch out some ideas and architecture on paper before I even load up Hammer. This way, I know where the project is going, and I have some idea for the scope of the entire map. Not everyone maps this way, but I am a planner by heart.

In fact, when I came up with the idea for my first map, I was actually at work. I drew stuff all over my prescription pad (including the back side) and took them home before I pieced together all the ideas and constructed the map that very night. A lot of writers do this too, but they call it the "brainstorming" process.

I believe doing some planning before embarking can save time and frustration later on. When I don't have any idea when I begin, I usually end up with a disjointed map (or end up wasting time and re-making a whole section of the map over and over).

By the way, I'm no veteran mapper by any means. I've just started mapping two months ago, but I've tested a lot of great maps and I have some idea of what components make a map great. Hope that helps.
[addsig]



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 Re: prison_grav
Posted by Junkyard God on Sat Dec 4th at 5:07pm 2004

Try to read some of ReNo's tutoials about architecture in the HL1 tutorials section, they realy help. <br> <br>and try to make some walls with different texture and add some objects, it'll start looking better and better, <br>the layout looks nice though smiley



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 Re: prison_grav
Posted by thundercleese on Sun Dec 5th at 5:13am 2004

Thanks Bio, Check out the new SC2 for some of what I've learned so far about architecture




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