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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Agent Smith on Mon Jan 10th at 4:43am 2005

Well here is the map that I've submitted for the Valve HL2: DM competition, hopefully it'll get there in time. It's still a beta, but most of the bugs have been removed so its relatively bug free, just needs some more work.

As some of you have and will notice is that the map is really large. The fps are pretty good through most of it, but there are some parts that get a little high, however on my pc the settings are higher than my video card can handle, so with slightly lowered settings those areas should go no lower than 40 fps, which is a bit low, but oh well. I'll continue working on the map, to optimize it as much as possible, I already have some ideas, so when I release the map publicly it'll run as well as possible. Due to time constrictions this was all I was able to do.

Those rooted compile times were the result of somewhat shoddy construction on my part and also some obvious errors I missed. Once fixed up it compiled in 2 1/2 hours.

Here are various shots of the "finished" for the competition map.

http://home.graffiti.net/agentsmithbob:graffiti.net/Pics/dm_hydro0019b.jpg
http://home.graffiti.net/agentsmithbob:graffiti.net/Pics/dm_hydro0020b.jpg
http://home.graffiti.net/agentsmithbob:graffiti.net/Pics/dm_hydro0022b.jpg
http://home.graffiti.net/agentsmithbob:graffiti.net/Pics/dm_hydro0023b.jpg
http://home.graffiti.net/agentsmithbob:graffiti.net/Pics/dm_hydro0024b.jpg
http://home.graffiti.net/agentsmithbob:graffiti.net/Pics/dm_hydro0025b.jpg
http://home.graffiti.net/agentsmithbob:graffiti.net/Pics/dm_hydro0026b.jpg
http://home.graffiti.net/agentsmithbob:graffiti.net/Pics/dm_hydro0027b.jpg
http://home.graffiti.net/agentsmithbob:graffiti.net/Pics/dm_hydro0028b.jpg
http://home.graffiti.net/agentsmithbob:graffiti.net/Pics/dm_hydro0029b.jpg
http://home.graffiti.net/agentsmithbob:graffiti.net/Pics/dm_hydro0030b.jpg
http://home.graffiti.net/agentsmithbob:graffiti.net/Pics/dm_hydro0031b.jpg
http://home.graffiti.net/agentsmithbob:graffiti.net/Pics/dm_hydro0032b.jpg
http://home.graffiti.net/agentsmithbob:graffiti.net/Pics/dm_hydro0033b.jpg
[addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Cassius on Mon Jan 10th at 4:48am 2005

Have my babies.



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Mon Jan 10th at 5:12am 2005

I think everybody would appreciate a download link

[addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Agent Smith on Mon Jan 10th at 5:16am 2005

I'll be putting up a download link after the deadline. It's not that I don't trust the people here at the Snarkpit, but it could be possible for someone to rip off my work or trying and pass it off as their own. It is merely a precaution... and it also serves well to build suspense .




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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Mon Jan 10th at 7:51am 2005

Awesome. Absolutely awesome. Your penchant for wide open landscapes was a handicap (IMO) in HL1 DoD. In this map, they do you proud. I'll say it again. Awesome! [addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Gorbachev on Mon Jan 10th at 8:30am 2005

I started something very similar, but stopped Christmas break due to time constraints and not enough free time with school. Glad to see someone do the theme justice.
[addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Agent Smith on Mon Jan 10th at 8:46am 2005

Thanks for the compliments guys, I was getting a bit worried there for a while but the map ended up turning out better than expected. Mind you its not quite finished, as I need to do further debugging and optimizing. I also need to get some people to test it over a lan or something to see how well it plays. It really sucked that Valve didn't allow for time, as there was a lot of testing I would have liked to have done. [addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Captain P on Mon Jan 10th at 9:44am 2005

This one definitely looks awesome. Also fits with the HL2 environment very well. A map that would make me buy another router (so I can play through Steam).

Only thing I didn't like was that arch in the 25b screenie. Looked too blocky. I don't know if that's on purpose but I think it's better to make it a smoothed arch.

[addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by ReNo on Wed Jan 12th at 8:39pm 2005

Ok here is what I noticed in my run through...



In two places you have paired up your chargers - personally I think it might be better to have spread them around a little.



Flickering texture here, looks like you have some overlapping going on.



No texture on these - is that a bug or just how they are?



For some reason I was getting pink shadows on all the props in the level - not sure if you did this on purpose or not, but it looks wierd.



This section of pipe in particular is vastly too long, and its not as if there is a great reward for such a slow and perilous journey either. I disliked all of these pipes to be hoenst, but this one really has to be changes in some way IMO.



Coming all the way to the top of the map, to find....a shotgun? Considering it is probably the weakest non-standard issue firearm in HL2DM, I think its a bit of a slap in the face to get this for working your way up. Perhaps a super suit charger or something woulda been better, at the expense of removing one of each of the other chargers?



I loved the collapsed road tunnel, very nicely done. These wires looked a bit odd to me though - a bit too thick perhaps? Also, the wire connecting the two light fixtures together seems pointless to me since they are already connected to the conduit thing along the ceiling.



I couldn't see any way in there, yet it seems there is a stash of pickups. Am I missing something or was it just a little oversight?

All in all the map is nice. Visually its great, and it has some sections that should be fun to play. I think the connectivity is somewhat flawed, particularly forcing the player to do so much tedious jumping up huge stair type things. Also, the water section of the map felt very redundant to me, with the focus of the level very much being on the structural part as opposed to the really empty and open lake part. Still a very nice level though, great way to introduce yourself to the new engine

EDIT: Come to think of it, it seemed a bit devoid of life. Did you use any sound effects at all? I can't remember noticing them.
[addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Jan 12th at 8:55pm 2005

This is one of those rare occasions where i am genuinely impressed enough that "Oh my f**king God" doesn't quite seem a strong enough phrase to convey my thoughts about a creation done on a user level. I looked this map over, I saw nothing blatantly screaming "FIX ME". Most of the things I noticed were either small texture misalignments (which were quite numerous) or just plain old opinions. I will post both for illustration purposes, but only as such since its not a real gripe.

So without further delay:

I received this error message. I have little clue exactly what it is, but felt i should post it just in case it was overlooked in the creation process. It could very well be only my substandard hardware causing this. I will allow the author to determine exactly what it is, without speculating further.

Over-stretched textures bother me almost as much as mis-alignments, so I just had to mention it at least once

The vistas and long sight lines of this map had me drooling, and a trifle upset. All they did was drive home just how inadequate my hardware is. In this shot, the use of terrain elevation was used to good effect. It really made it feel complete.

The connectivity the pipes added, brought it all together IMO. however I felt that the rewards for descending into them were not in proportion to how hard it was to get back out. I saw nothing in the holes, that couldn't have been obtained easier, elsewhere.

The squat-jump of that step area, was IMO not a fair egress option for the holes i mentioned earlier.

8 freaking damned frames per second. It seems to drive it home, I really need a bigger machine.

That RPG was the only real reward i saw, I admit I could have missed any others since i was noclipping around at this point.

Certain textures just wont align well no matter what you do


Vista's galore.. Man did it look nice.

So far, this has been the best water texture i have seen used. My biggest complaint about HL2 maps so far has been the jiggly waters. They move with no outward reason why. Water doesn't just move.

The crane looked out of place, and not at the same time. Like the auto's, I kept asking, "Why are these here? What purpose did they serve when they functioned?"

The auto's, not one of them was up-side-down. How can the be so disabled and be all right side up




All these shots are strictly for vista purposes.. I couldn't get enough of them.

I also noticed sounds used to good effect. IMO, this is the best user made map I have seen thus far, At least of the ones that were this close to complete.

Very nice map.

[addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Agent Smith on Thu Jan 13th at 12:49am 2005

Thanks heaps guys. It's funny, most of the problems you pointed out I myself noticed, but just didn't have time to fix before the deadline.

- I don't know what the hell the pink shadows were doing, I couldn't seem to get rid of them.
- The pipes definately need some more work I agree, and the squat jump bits, on second thought, were not perhaps the best idea, but they can be fixed with more so they become thin stairs.
- I don't why the sound didn't work for you Reno, I attempted to use the new soundscapes in combination with standard ambient generics. Ideally I would have liked to make custom soundscapes so they blended better between the areas, but that was about the best I could do with theirs. They did work on my PC however.
- There is actually a doorway in the fence near the gas pumps and tank, just left of where you took the screen Reno.
- The cables just use the standard thickness, and they aren't actully hooked into the pipes above, they've been hung over the top so as not to get in the way. Might need a bit of work to more clearly represent that.
- There are a number of small texture misalignments I'll admit. With a map of that size and the limited timespan I couldn't check it quite as throughly as I would have liked.
- The weapons were placed in about an hour, and needed a bit more consideration. I think the idea at the time was to place the weapons in areas where they are not immediately useful, so once you find a crossbow in a lower area, you have to get higher up to use it effectively. I probably placed a few too many bigger weapons (combine rifle), but I thought it was needed to off set something that is primarily a long range map.
- The rock textures pissed me off no end Orph because they looked stretched. It's my fault really for not doing the rock work as correctly as it should have been, but again, time constraints.
- That problem with the brambles prop I also recieved Orph. It seemed that it was a static prop that had no physics model or collision hull, which upset the engine a bit. Didn't seem to have a negative effect though.

Ultimately I think I should have started with a smaller project, but dammit I've been waiting to large open maps since I first started mapping. Thanks for the comments guys, I'll do some fixes to the map before its publicly released. [addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by ReNo on Thu Jan 13th at 1:23am 2005

The sound probably did work, I just didn't remember noticing it at all. Thats probably a good thing - sounds should really be subtle for the most part. For the last point, you should just set the prop in question's collision type to "no collisions" rather than "use v_physics". Its not a critical error, so its not a big issue, I guess.
[addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Orpheus on Thu Jan 13th at 2:11am 2005

you are quite welcome.. it was a joy to behold.

be good.

[addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by G.Ballblue on Thu Jan 13th at 2:19am 2005

Quite impressive from those screens

Just something I noticed in Orph's critique though, (I ask due to a lack of any major HL2 mapping) but are model renderings supposed to go that high? (Static prop rendering and Other model rendering)

[addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by MJ on Thu Jan 13th at 2:31am 2005

one of the better map entrys imho..

good luck!




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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Mouse on Thu Jan 13th at 3:30am 2005

? quote:
I'll be putting up a download link after the deadline. It's not that I don't trust the people here at the Snarkpit, but it could be possible for someone to rip off my work or trying and pass it off as their own. It is merely a precaution... and it also serves well to build suspense .



I was thinking about that possibility, so I threw the VMF file on the CD, also. Map looks real nice, can't wait to download. All these quality maps that have been released or announced in the last week are really a step up from some of the earlier maps. The Valve contest is a great way to step up the quality level.

And yet killbox is still on 20 different servers.




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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Thu Jan 13th at 4:43am 2005

I am astounded at how well this map runs. Granted I can get FPS lows of 35 in a couple of areas, but for the sheer size, openness, and detail of the map this is just something else.

I agree with much of what Reno and Orph have said, but I would add that I think there may be too little cover in the waterway area, especially when compared to the ground level of the under-construction area. Although perhaps diversity is a good thing. All the duck jumping and crawling gets very annoying, and really isn't conducive to good DM flow. There were too many long pipes to crawl through in my opinion, especially for the RPG (given that there's one in the waterway in the cargo container that's easily gotten). They are deathtraps, and in a game with more players they will probably be completely avoided, which could hurt the connectivity you're going for. I would try to make the pipes big enough to walk through (except for the RPG one, where it makes sense to have something that dissuades players from constantly going after it). The connectivity is both strong and weak. It's easy enough to get to most areas of the map, but then there are sections like the piping and the topside of the construction area that can become chores to move through. If I were playing in a game I would deliberately want to avoid using certain passages because I would know I would die without any real chance of returning fire. That may be what you're going for though, so its up to you.

I would say this map has sections of utter brilliance (the ground level close to the cliffside), some decent areas (waterway), and some really annoying areas (the whole pipe section). The map is really let down by these weaker sections, but it's impossible to ignore the awesome sections and the gameplay potential they provide.

[addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Gorbachev on Thu Jan 13th at 6:13am 2005

I got the map to crash. I threw a grenade at the pair of barrels near the gas pump, one blew up towards the water...the other rolled down the hill into a pipe and didn't explode, it finally went in the tube and the game crashed.

[edit] I'll throw in a few things I found.

For the record, this is my system:
-Barton 2500+ at 3200+ speeds
-1GB RAM
-128MB 9800 Pro

Video Settings in-game:


Only this area and angle did this...water's okay here...


Step forward a touch, and it fogs up and gets almost flickery.


Lowest fps I could get in the corner was 36fps. Could be worse, could be better.


The cement brush is overlapping a few feet above the pipe there.


Perhaps use the bent piece of fence model on the left there to add a bit more connectivity?


The decal is getting cut-off here, maybe switch it with a thin one somewhere else, a trade-up.


This problem is evident in most places...the stairs are all repeating the same texture and alignment, mix it up with slight variations to make it look natural.

[addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Agent Smith on Thu Jan 13th at 8:38am 2005

Thanks guys. Well the good news is that most of those dodgy bits, like the pipes and things, are easily fixed, so they'll be done for the public release, along with the fixed up weapon placement to correspond with the changes. Hopefully that'll make the entire map the same high standard.

I don't know what was going on with the water Grobachev, but I noticed it too. It only does it from a few places and only on that water. I'll look into it, along with the poofy pink shadows .

Thanks for the helpful comments, with them it shouldn't take too long to get the map ship shape. If any of you have maps you want me to check out I'd be more than happy to return the favour.
[addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Fri Jan 14th at 3:28am 2005

Nothing big here since I think everyone has already done a pretty through job.

I bet you never though your map could be this ugly! Welcome to my computer.

Besides being slow, this is way too long of a sight line for the confined space. I think that even if you make the pipes big enough to run through, you still ought to put an occluding model or something to make these places less exposed.

Brush overlap.

I agree with everyone else's assessment. All that duck-jumping and stuff got very annoying. the pink shadows were weird, but I honestly might not have noticed if it hadn't already been pointed out. There really isn't much left to be said.

Good Job!

[addsig]




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