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DM_Hydro
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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Agent Smith on Sun Jan 30th at 9:57am 2005

Well you might find the fps to be a bit low on a system that isn't that good, my system included. I can put that down however to the fact that we only had a month to build the map right after the release of the game. Myself and a number of other people over-estimated the capabilities of the new engine, buying into Vavle's hype about how f**king awesome it was and how much you could do, and discovered that holy s**t, it isn't as f**king awesome as they said.

That in mind kind of consider it a first map of soughts, an extreme test of the Source engine. On that note however, the lowest framerates in my map are only slightly lower than the low points in dm_lockdown which, compared to the level of complexity and detail in my map, is crazy. In a good way though.

Oh, and it turns out it was the ambient light making the shadows pink, I'd changed the colour and didn't remember. Anyway, if I select a gray instead the map becomes too dark and loses a lot of its feel.
[addsig]



Quote
 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Gorbachev on Sun Jan 30th at 10:03am 2005

? quote:
Oh, and it turns out it was the ambient light making the shadows pink, I'd changed the colour and didn't remember. Anyway, if I select a gray instead the map becomes too dark and loses a lot of its feel.


For ambient light, I suggest a grey, or a very slight tint to the grey. So if you wanted warmer make it a slight orangy/reddish tinge to it.
[addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by keved on Sun Jan 30th at 1:18pm 2005

? quoting Agent Smith
Oh, and it turns out it was the ambient light making the shadows pink, I'd changed the colour and didn't remember. Anyway, if I select a gray instead the map becomes too dark and loses a lot of its feel.

Thought it was as I had the same issue in NP_Refinery. I'm finding it's a balancing act to juggle this ambient value; a colourless value and the prop shadows look ok but the lighting throughout the level is grey & lifeless, but too much colour in the value and the prop shadows look totally unrealistic. A separate value for prop shadows would have been nice...





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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Agent Smith on Sun Feb 13th at 2:07pm 2005

Well I've finally gotten the beta 2 done and its now available for the general public. I've had it up on the steam forums for a bit while the SnarkPit's been down, but now its up again I can get some decent commentary, and hopefully I won't have to repeat myself hundreds of times because some stupid f**kers can't read!

Screenshots:
See next page for screens (blame Orph)

Download from Here:
http://files.filefront.com/DM_HYDRO_B2/;3802345;;/fileinfo.html

Enjoy
 [addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Feb 13th at 2:30pm 2005

my god smith, do you truly not understand "Optimized screen shots"

i do however love the improved sections.. don't misunderstand.

*whispers* less than 100k bud.. less...

[edit] one observation: culverts rarely look "bored" as with yours, they are jointed additions to the network. try to make the additions look realistic. some sort of a transition is needed.

[addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Agent Smith on Sun Feb 13th at 2:40pm 2005

Sorry Orph, the screens were a bit of a rush. I even shrunk em down and everything. I think at the time it was a bit of payback on some assholes on the steam forums. Give me a bit and thy wish will be granted. (I usually optimize them, I swear!)

I'm not quite sure what your talking about, culverts and such. If you could explain and perhaps point it out on my overly bloated screenshots .
[addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Feb 13th at 2:53pm 2005

its very difficult for me to describe, but your branching holes look like they were drilled into.. or bored.

make the junctions distinct, like this screen shot above.

hope that made sense?

[edit] look at the black one on the left here: http://img201.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img201&image=dmhydrob20008b2fr.jpg

[addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Agent Smith on Sun Feb 13th at 2:59pm 2005

Here are the optimized screenshots:











 [addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Agent Smith on Sun Feb 13th at 3:02pm 2005

I see what you mean there Orph. They are actually like that, its just the lighting (or lack of) probably makes it seem like its a straight bored out hole. The pipe props which extrude some aren't being brightly lit, making it hard to see them.
[addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Feb 13th at 3:05pm 2005

? quoting Agent Smith
I think at the time it was a bit of payback on some assholes on the steam forums.

hmm, so. I take it the level of professionalism is lacking on the steam forums that you have come to expect around here?

would you mind quoting some of the feedback you received? I am genuinely curious to see how they responded to this map. If it was negative, I would be insulted.. as I have already critiqued it with glowing acceptance.

[addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by onniguru on Sun Feb 13th at 10:20pm 2005

I am able to consistently get 800x600 screencaps below 80kb in photoshop, even with a quality setting of 7 or 8, which is still fairly decent. Of course, I realize not everyone has free access to photoshop :o

When I did the same screencaps in paintshop, they came out at something like 200k, lol






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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Myrk- on Sun Feb 13th at 10:58pm 2005

Look in the last pic you show there... theres a combine spray on the rock surface which looks completely wrong and out of place... might wanna fix it. [addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Agent Smith on Sun Feb 13th at 11:28pm 2005

Thanks Myrk, I didn't notice that. It'll go on the list of little things to fix.

Here's a link to the thread on the steam forums Orph if you want to take a gander.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=243053&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

The good stuff starts on page 2.
[addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Agent Smith on Mon Feb 14th at 2:43pm 2005

Here's my personal favorite Orph. Kind of kills the chances of more people downloading it doesn't it.

M|k33[K-9] - "There are definitely some strong points to the map, but I am looking at this from the perspective of it being a DM map, and IMHO the negatives far outweigh the positives... to the point where I could not recommend this map, nor run it on my server."
Says the man who hasn't got a map to his name. Lucky I didn't want my map on his server, otherwise I would have looked quite the fool.


[addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by habboi on Mon Feb 14th at 7:12pm 2005

Lol, what an asshole, your map is superb and anyone who insults it has to deal with me!

Keep up the great mapping!

[addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Trapt on Tue Feb 15th at 5:15am 2005

? quote:
Lol, what an asshole, your map is superb and anyone who insults it has to deal with me!


o/ - Dealing with you shouldn't be too hard habboi.

Anywho - This map r0x completely. Everything seems so polished, and I think the way to get the RPG is perfect. It is useless where you get it, and the player must take a risk. It doesn't seem too long of a journey to get there and back to me.

Unfortunately, that guy on the Steam forums obviously doesn't know what he is talking about. He probably isn't a mapper, and is talking from a player's point of view. A player with a microscopic brain he may be, but nevertheless still a player. After all, you can't please everyone, eh?

The frame rates for me weren't as bad as Overwatch: And that map seems to be played heaps (I suppose the fact that there are only 2 maps kinda helps) - But I predict Overwatch will continually be played even as new official and unofficial maps come out. Hopefully, this map shall be the same.

I'd recommend this map to anyone, and will be a favourite map to play between me and my friends.

Awesome work Agent Smith. [addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Agent Smith on Tue Feb 15th at 6:31am 2005

Thanks for the support guys . [addsig]



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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by AlphaMRE on Wed Feb 16th at 3:57am 2005

Wow that is an awesome map - yer skillz are mad!

I wish people were playing it right now - haven't gotta play it with anybody yet

Good job and luck in the competition!

MRE




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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by keved on Wed Feb 16th at 1:53pm 2005

This is the feedback I left on the Steam forums after playing Hydro. Smith, you've already read this but maybe it will stimulate some further discussion amongst the wise sages here. Hydro is a terrific level - we're having a blast playing it on our 4 PC LAN here, but not without its problems imo.

- There is a lot of jumping required to traverse the layout when above ground level, frequently on narrow ledges, and potentially under the watchful gaze of snipers hunched in dark corners. This was pretty frustrating tbh. A tactic used by many was to risk getting the Xbow, find a dark corner on the other side of the water, and then rack up a bunch of easy kills (of people struggling jumping onto blocks etc).

- Run the RPG gauntlet and it isn't useable until out of the sewer system. It wasn't long before I didn't even bother trying to get it, or going into the sewers at all (entirely due to having to crouch). When in possession of the xbow, magnum or combine MG with grenades, it was very easy to get some cheap kills in the sewers.

It is very impressive though, no doubt about it, but the layout is unfortunately yielding some pretty big gameplay issues (though as you say there's not a great deal you can do about the performance, apart from removing some dynamic props maybe ).





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 Re: DM_Hydro
Posted by Agent Smith on Wed Feb 16th at 2:25pm 2005

Here are some explanations for the jump crouch area's in case you missed them in the steam forums:

Most of the area's that have small easy to run up steps used to be jump crouch steps, which I changed. The other ones are really only part of the construction, not necessarily major paths, though some can be used to get to areas. It's really a case of use them at your own risk, as there are other routes.

 A number of the jump crouch areas you pointed out actually aren't major, or even minor, paths. Some of them can be used, but they're mainly there for aesthetic quality.

If you don't like the RPG trap, oh well .


 [addsig]




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