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Firth
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 Re: Firth
Posted by Campaignjunkie on Thu Jan 13th at 2:35am 2005

Critique this (Orph, Adam, anyone) please. Please don't distribute this either, since it's in an unfinished state and rather crappy. Thanks.

There's bugs in various bits, but what I'm more interested in is suggestions for weapon placement or whatever. Working on getting the framerate up in various places as well. Water is truly a harsh mistress. It's the eleventh hour before I'm going to have to mail this in.

EDIT: old links removed
[addsig]



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 Re: Firth
Posted by IrishGuinea on Thu Jan 13th at 4:54am 2005

First off, beautiful map! great atmosphere. Feels like a real place. I can't wait to play this map.

Not sure if you wanted suggestions as to where to place weps or the placement you have now. I imagine it's probaly where to place them because its pretty sparse right now.

crossbow is in a good spot but the ramp leading out to it provides ultimate camping if you crouch on that ramp and just peek out at eye level. you have the rocketlauncher below it out on the grass, thats way to close. I would put that all the way across on that far walkway area if your looking straight out from the sniper deck. that could counter the camping pretty good. plus that would make a good triangular open fire fight with the crossbow, rocket launcher, and where you have the combine heavy machinegun (I don't know what it's called, srry) add more shotguns and ammo, and I never found the magnum...

here's a few other things I found you probably already know about...


If you run in here and catch that corner of the walkway you start bobbing up and down, i would just resize that back some.


That grate is the only way in and out, BIG deadend, unless someone in the sniper tower opens the gates for you, unless I missed a way to open it from here.


clip that fence on the left or just move it out to the edge more. I just crouched and walked right on by.... man you could have some fun out there with alot of CB ammo.


I thought this should have benn breakable...


You obviouly know about the water, from what you said in your post, but I thought I would show you what it looks like on my end, just as an FYI.... also, there was water splash sounds but once your in the water it sounds like your runnin on concrete.

I also noticed the water gates never close, that will be a big killer for connectivity, I'd put a timer on them to reset.

thats about it for a quick run through, nice ambient sounds, looks great, bet it's gonna play great for a big crowd too... it is a BIG map. Nice Job! GL in the contest.





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 Re: Firth
Posted by Yak_Fighter on Thu Jan 13th at 5:08am 2005

Christ man, you need to learn to control yourself! This map is gigantic, with some huge, complex, and nice looking areas that look to be great DM fare (such as the industrial interiors and the upper area that the crossbow overlooks), but I'm afraid that due to all the hugeness of everything else you won't be able to recreate that same amount of complexity and detail throughout the map. I was reminded of Rustmill as I was running around some areas, and that was a great map so that's good. The teleporter was sweet as well.

Now, I know you don't have much time, but if I were you I'd cut a bunch of the excess areas and tighten up the map. Just like Persia it's too large. Considering that the airboat does strange stuff in DM and doesn't even fire it's gun I'd suggest ditching them and most of the connecting water canal areas and focusing on the industrial buildings, the waterway overlook in the middle, and some of the teleporter/bunker areas. I couldn't even begin to wrap my head around the weapon placement to be honest, but it didn't seem like there was enough for what is assuredly a 32 player map. I'd have to really take a close look to be sure though.

Basically you've got to remember that you're making a DM map, not a SP map, and that what works in one won't necessarily work in the other.

[addsig]



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 Re: Firth
Posted by Campaignjunkie on Thu Jan 13th at 6:45am 2005

Bleh, should have asked for feedback earlier about the layout. I cut out one area I didn't finish doing yet, and just threw some stairs there or something. But I've already done too much on the rest of the map to throw it away. Thanks for the advice though, I'll consider tightening everything in future DM maps.

Weapon placement - there's really none to speak of, hehe. What I meant was where you would consider putting some of the weapons and such. *gives Reno puppy dog eyes*

About the water; WHAT THE HECK?! Hehe, I really have no idea what's going on in that last screen. The canal locks should be opening and closing just fine (they work on the machines I've been testing with) and the water should all be connected and purdy. Hmmm... Perplexing.
[addsig]



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 Re: Firth
Posted by Orpheus on Thu Jan 13th at 9:51am 2005

i will be leaving out in about 1 hour.. was supposed to leave out yesterday, but damned bus gave me fits again :/

i will look at it when i return, hopefully with so many people commenting, i won't have much left to do but stroll around and gawk at the sights.

pics look wonderful so far.

be good.

[addsig]



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 Re: Firth
Posted by Leperous on Thu Jan 13th at 10:08am 2005

I found your frame rates to be excellent, actually- good choice to use opaque water. I had a run around- there are a few small things to note such as your chargers seem a wee bit too far off the ground, and radiators don't make a ripping sound when you pull them off the wall. Loved the crossbow location, but otherwise I'd agree with the others and say that currently it's too vast- I think in particular one of the labs/teleporters is too far away from the action and detracts.

I've found weapon placement a lot harder since HL1 as there are seemingly fewer weapons to place! My suggestions would be to not place many more AR2's, and have a few shotguns here and there, a revolver in the labs perhaps. Er, and that's it, that's all the choice you have





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 Re: Firth
Posted by Adam Hawkins on Thu Jan 13th at 12:17pm 2005

I'll have a look as soon as I get home from work in about 4 hours [addsig]



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 Re: Firth
Posted by Static88 on Thu Jan 13th at 4:23pm 2005

Your map looks really good. Makes me wonder why I even bothered submitting mine. Definitely made for a larger group of people. Tweak it a little bit here and there. I feel like Ican just keep adding and adding to mine and never finish. How did you get that Citadel model to fit in there? Is your skybox huge?



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 Re: Firth
Posted by Adam Hawkins on Thu Jan 13th at 5:35pm 2005

Here's a couple of things I noticed while looking round the map Overall though, it's not far off being a top-notch map - and i'm surprised at how quick people are being able to utilise the new tools.

Hope that all helps some

[addsig]



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 Re: Firth
Posted by Campaignjunkie on Thu Jan 13th at 10:39pm 2005

I seriously don't know what's with the water. Maybe the judges will take pity on me? Or hopefully they'll all play on DX9 machines. Some of the stuff I fixed on my own, other parts I didn't get a chance to fix. Note to self: Ask for feedback earlier.
[addsig]



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 Re: Firth
Posted by Campaignjunkie on Fri Jan 14th at 2:04am 2005

Thanks to everyone who wasted their time giving me feedback

Map profile updated with a Beta 6 download link (with hopefully fixed canal water) and some updated screenshots. Good luck to everyone who managed to enter in the contest!
[addsig]



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 Re: Firth
Posted by Agent Smith on Fri Jan 14th at 5:57am 2005

Just took a look and I'm majorly impressed CJ. Some very nice work.

Most of the problems I found have already been mentioned, like the different shades and lighting on the water. I think the problem might be because you've used different brushes for the same stretch of water, and even though you've used the same texture and it lines up, your cubemaps are calculating lighting and reflections in different areas. I found the only way to get it to work properly is having all the water in an area made from the same brush, using only one cubemap. It might be hard for your map, what with the tunnels, but I'm pretty sure thats the way to fix it. Then again I'm no expert, not even close, so I could be wrong.

It might be an idea to scale up your water texture too, as at the moment you can see that the ripple effect is tiled, and it looks dodgy in the larger water areas.

I found some areas to be too dark, but then again my monitor is buggered, so its probably just my setup.

Over all a really nice map, with varying areas and gameplay in a well made setting. Top job.

[Edit] Damn, I wished I payed more attention before posting. Anyway, some of it may be usefull.




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 Re: Firth
Posted by Agent Smith on Fri Jan 14th at 11:28pm 2005

So did you manage to send it in before the deadline CJ?
[addsig]



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 Re: Firth
Posted by Campaignjunkie on Fri Jan 14th at 11:32pm 2005

I hope it'll get in. But then, one of my buddies tried to put it on his server and it kind of crashed it. Probably too damn big. So even if it does make it, I doubt Valve will even be able to playtest this. Hey, at least I tried!
[addsig]



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 Re: Firth
Posted by Agent Smith on Sat Jan 15th at 12:12am 2005

Damn straight!

Oh well, after the playtesting for mine it turns out some parts of the design are pretty much crap, and I didn't get a chance to change them. But, what can they expect from a months worth of work, particularly when people are learning a new engine and editing tools/methods.
[addsig]



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 Re: Firth
Posted by mazemaster on Sat Jan 15th at 1:10am 2005

Wow. The map looks great! I really like it, it fits the canals theme well. [addsig]



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 Re: Firth
Posted by DrGlass on Mon Jan 17th at 2:33am 2005

I just played through your map and I must say it was very nice. You really were able to show me what was going on. I loved the teleport and the little secret bases hidden near the combine outpost type area. It all felt authentic.

I think it is a bit too big for a deathmatch though. I am pretty sure that I could have wandered around for quite some time and not see an enemy. I dont need to point out things like the double door, and water, etc. I dont think you should of had the air boats, while they are really cool I dont think the guns work right in multi-player.






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 Re: Firth
Posted by mazemaster on Sat Jan 22nd at 2:27am 2005

This is my new favorite HL2DM map. Reminds me of Chaocity3 (one of my favorite maps for HL1), except taken to the next level! I'm glad the massive map style hasn't died with HL2. [addsig]



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 Re: Firth
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Jan 22nd at 2:54am 2005

? quoting mazemaster
This is my new favorite HL2DM map. Reminds me of Chaocity3 (one of my favorite maps for HL1), except taken to the next level! I'm glad the massive map style hasn't died with HL2.

there were/are a lot of great maps, a lot of big maps and a lot of great big maps, but chaocity 3 is not among them. its big alright, but plays like a brick in a wall of cement.

it was one of those maps that had a following, or groupy mindset, but hardly one i would classify as champion material.

i tried once to critique it. the author was... not very receptive to my views. perhaps it colored my view of it, perhaps not.

i never figured you for a choas groupy maze :/

[addsig]



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 Re: Firth
Posted by mazemaster on Sat Jan 22nd at 3:31am 2005

It takes a certain style of player to like that map. It is one of my favorite maps and yet I can completely understand why someone would hate it. [addsig]




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