Justice - SP
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Re: Justice - SP
Posted by 7dk2h4md720ih on Tue Jan 25th at 8:43pm 2005


You desperately need to start using trims. You don't need to goe overboard, but as a general rule all doors should get trims.

I had fun playing through this, and especially enjoyed the open-endedness which others have mentioned.

The map would have benefited visually if you held a more definite style thoughout. You seemed to have tried to mesh various styles together, with the result being that the building just looks awkward in places. The medieval style cylindrical turret is a perfect example of something completely out of place.

On the topic of things out of place, there were a number of offending props. Why is there a stove in a random room in the courthouse? I understand you weren't shooting for realism..... but still, a stove.

The difference nice a trim makes: (I hope my url doesn't fall foul of the word filter) (it did)






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Re: Justice - SP
Posted by satchmo on Tue Jan 25th at 8:51pm 2005


I agree with the trim suggestion. I've considered that, but I was afraid to make the framerates even lower.

I'll experiment with it and definitely keep them if the performance doesn't suffer as a result of the addition. Thanks.
[addsig]




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Re: Justice - SP
Posted by satchmo on Tue Jan 25th at 10:29pm 2005


? quote:
The medieval style cylindrical turret is a perfect example of something completely out of place.


The cylindrical element was actually taken directly from the real courthouse in Santa Barbara. I feel that it adds nicely to the architecture, but everyone is entitled to his/her opinion and taste.

The "stoves" you've mentioned are actually old-fashioned heaters. They are frequently seen in old European-style buildings. I thought they belong to those big lobby areas. Otherwise, the lobby just seems so bare.

I added trim to almost all the doorways, and the framerates stayed about the same. So they're definitely staying. However, when I walked around in the map, I didn't notice their presence that much, especially in the shadows.
[addsig]




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Re: Justice - SP
Posted by 7dk2h4md720ih on Tue Jan 25th at 11:06pm 2005



The cylindrical element was actually taken directly from the real courthouse in Santa Barbara. I feel that it adds nicely to the architecture, but everyone is entitled to his/her opinion and taste.

There was nothing wrong with the turret specifically, but there's usually at least two turrrets in any building which has them. Coupled with about 50 different windos designs, I still feel it's a valid point.


The "stoves" you've mentioned are actually old-fashioned heaters. They are frequently seen in old European-style buildings. I thought they belong to those big lobby areas. Otherwise, the lobby just seems so bare.

I've never seen a stove in the lobby of a courthouse. I'd imagine they use the regular type of old fashioned heaters.

I added trim to almost all the doorways, and the framerates stayed about the same. So they're definitely staying. However, when I walked around in the map, I didn't notice their presence that much, especially in the shadows.

Perhaps you're not giving them a distinctive enough texture.




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Re: Justice - SP
Posted by satchmo on Wed Jan 26th at 4:13am 2005


Yeah, I can see your point with the windows. I kinda got a bit carried away with the windows. But in the actual courthouse, the window designs are quite varied too (but not to the extent of my map).

I did carefully pick a distinct and eye-catching texture for the door trims. And now that I've looked at them more, I can see more of a visual impact.

I'll post the update when I'm done with some gameplay changes.

[addsig]




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Re: Justice - SP
Posted by satchmo on Wed Jan 26th at 11:43pm 2005


So, that was a "fake" final version. I'm making some additional updates and perhaps release the real final version of the map tomorrow.

Thanks for playing the beta all along and waiting patiently for this release.
[addsig]




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Re: Justice - SP
Posted by martinloki on Thu Jan 27th at 5:33pm 2005


I may just be spending too much time playing with this map, and I hope i don't seem to nitpicky. While seeing what could be done I found that the antlions can spawn with no warning right in front of you. In order for this to occur, or at least the way I did it, start a new game and go to the roof. Go around until you can see the repellers getting ready. Jump up and walk the fence until you get over to them. Now comes the fun part. There are a bunch of ways to get down. Either jump to the statue and take some damage, or drop to the lamp, circle around, jump to the wall decoration, then to the arch and down, or drop to the wall decoration above the fountian, and hop to the fountian. Now try to go inside the breezeway. It's really a nasty surprise.

I really do love the non-linearity of this map, and can't wait for the final release.

Also, I like the antlion gaurds, and really hope you dont get rid of them, so if you cant find a way to bring them into the game without the sudden spawn I have a few ideas that may work. Just let me know if you need them.




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Re: Justice - SP
Posted by satchmo on Thu Jan 27th at 6:36pm 2005


Thanks martinloki. You're really my best and most reliable playtester.

However, I've spent countless hours playing it myself, and I am starting to get sick of this map. I very much appreciate your tips and feedbacks, but I think I am really done with it by now. I know there are a few bugs that still exist in the map (like the one you mentioned), but most players will not encounter them unless they go through extraordinary means to trigger them.

The majority of the players will go through the most predictable routes, and I've painstakingly covered most of the possibilities. Designing a non-linear map is quite challenging, as I do have to take into consideration what crazy ideas people might come up with when they play the map. Most players will be unwilling to take a sixty-foot fall to the courtyard or go hopping on the exterior walls to get to the outside. And if they do, well, they'll find themselves with the main gate locked and the antlion guards wanting them for a snack.

I couldn't have the antlion guards spawn at the beginning of the game because the Combines inside the building will invariably notice them and start a huge battle with them. So when the player gets to the ground level, everything is already dead. I tried to hide them at first and then have them patrol, but that didn't work. They don't like the idea of patrolling, despite carefully set patrol path_corners. They seem to not obey these rules, unlike the Combines.

Anyways, thanks for the input. And have fun playing the final release! It's got more puzzles and physics, especially towards the beginning. Without using some quick wit, the player wouldn't be able to survive very long.
[addsig]




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Re: Justice - SP
Posted by satchmo on Thu Jan 27th at 6:39pm 2005


Now there! The final map is released. I got this thing off my chest and I am so ready to move on.

Have fun playing it, and use your brain as much as your brawn confronting the obstacles. After all, Gordon Freeman is a PhD from MIT.
[addsig]




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Re: Justice - SP
Posted by DrGlass on Thu Jan 27th at 7:13pm 2005


I'll d/l it again, I wrote up a review for you but it got rejected, so its a good thing, what did you update?

[addsig]




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Re: Justice - SP
Posted by satchmo on Thu Jan 27th at 7:24pm 2005


I fixed some gameplay bugs, where the player might have enemies spawning right in front of them. I also limited the movement of some NPC's, so they won't get lost running around in the yard.

In addition, I added quite a few visual details, so the map doesn't look as bare and unfinished. I know I could've done more, but I've decided that I spent enough time on this map already.

I also added some puzzles (not very difficult) to the beginning of the map. The combat is somewhat different in the beginning. I changed this so people won't gripe about having to deal with the two turrets outside the jail. The first couple of prison guards also got stripped of their shotguns, so it's not so unfair for the player to fight with them with just a crowbar.

Thanks for writing the review. By the way, why did they reject your review?
[addsig]




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Re: Justice - SP
Posted by sabrewolf on Fri Jan 28th at 6:31pm 2005


I've played just now your map so i think it was the latest version.

Escaping out of the prison was ok; however,there was a bit of ennoying gameplay before getting a decent waepon.

The biggest problem for me is that there are 3 windows where you can kill the gards way to easy . First one is in the place with the big statue ; the window halfway the small stairs. Second one is the window in the small corridor behind the court room ; when you go outside the gards go to that corridor and are easy to kill .Thirt one are the windows in the room where the suitrecharger is .

I suggest to cover them with bulletproof glass.

Then , i havent seen a prisoner ( nonlinearity is good but only if you can finish the map without missing half of it; i have seen only one living big antlion ; the other one was already killed out of my sight . There is still a respaw guard hanging on the roof .

To finish , there was not much HL2 in this map ; the blue screen was not functional ; the gravitygun was not usefull ( just to grab some ammo ).

Overall a good try and i had no problems with the lighting.





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Re: Justice - SP
Posted by satchmo on Fri Jan 28th at 6:53pm 2005


The gravity gun is actually crucial in getting the semi-hidden shotgun inside the prison. Otherwise, I agree it would be very annoying to fight off the initial wave of guards with just a handgun. I would never design a game that unfairly. If you use the surrounding equipment as intended, the map should never be frustrating.

And those sniping spots are carefully designed into the map, and if you've found them to be useful at camping those guards, more power to you.

By the way, did anyone find the hidden Magnum? I've scattered hints all over the map, with multiple locations where you find the "ammo" for the Magnum. However, the weapon itself is fairly well hidden. If anyone has found it, it's very useful to storm the conference room area.
[addsig]




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Re: Justice - SP
Posted by sabrewolf on Fri Jan 28th at 8:09pm 2005


I have taken a second tour in the prison and i didnt found the shotgun.

But i didnt need it ; it was just a bit of trial and error to kill a guard with only one grenate and use his waepon to kill the two others who follow.

On the other side , if there is a shotgun in the prison , the map is definetly to easy .

I like the shotgun and i have used it all the time ( that of a guard ) , so with running and shooting instead of hiding , you are in no time through the map , and i am 53 years old , so not the fastest anymore.





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Re: Justice - SP
Posted by satchmo on Sat Jan 29th at 12:33am 2005


Wow, I'm flattered that someone in his fifties is playing my map. I thought I was old for being in my thirties.

And you must be pretty good to think that using a shotgun would be too easy. I had the shotgun right out in the open before, and people were still complaining that it was too difficult.
[addsig]




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Re: Justice - SP
Posted by Tylak on Sat Jan 29th at 3:59pm 2005


Hey Satchmo,

I'll start by saying it wasn't too difficult, I only died once. I thought the level could have used a crossbow though (maybe I just missed it?). I found myself in positions where I could have easily sniped the combine.

My number one complaint is how you ended it. I didn't get in the buggy until the very end, I drove it up to the main gate. Then I got out to open it but I was suprised when the level ended. It would be way sweeter to end the map with a short drive through some enemies and off a ramp to the end trigger. Somthing like that, more dramatic.

If you're going to fade out at the end you should weaponstrip the player and teleport him into a small black box. This way you can't bumble around blind firing you gun and stuff.

Overall I thought it was fun. Good job.
[addsig]




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Re: Justice - SP
Posted by satchmo on Sat Jan 29th at 4:24pm 2005


Thanks, Tylak, for your comment.

You have great suggestions. However, this map cannot be any bigger than its current size, due to the nature of the architecture and the limitation on the framerates. I agree it would've been nice to drive around and make some Combines into roadkills. I will have to save that idea for another map though.

As for sniping, a crossbow would be pretty darn powerful against the guards. In fact, I would think that could make the gameplay a bit unfair favoring the player. I actually had a crossbow in the map before, but I took it out to balance the game better. Nevertheless, I still have a Magnum in the map, and that's pretty good for sniping too.

And I also agree with you on the weaponstrip and clipping the movement, but I thought that's pretty minor stuff. I'm glad you had fun though.

I plan to write a walkthrough for this map soon.
[addsig]




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Re: Justice - SP
Posted by martinloki on Sun Jan 30th at 5:52pm 2005


Satchmo, I had meant to ask before, is there a 357 on the map, or are the bullets there just to mess with us?




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Re: Justice - SP
Posted by satchmo on Sun Jan 30th at 9:51pm 2005


There *is* a 357 in the map (I call it the Magnum). It's just well hidden, and those ammos are there to entice the player to find it. [addsig]



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Re: Justice - SP
Posted by satchmo on Fri Feb 18th at 7:39pm 2005


I just uploaded an update for my single player map Justice. Instead of having antlion guards in the courtyard, I decided that having a gunship instead would add so much more to the gameplay.

I also fixed some minor bugs. I hope the gameplay is still balanced with the new addition. Have fun. [addsig]





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