dm_swamplight
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Re: dm_swamplight
Posted by Finger on Mon Feb 21st at 10:16pm 2005


So, while snarkpit was down, I released a beta version of this map at the Steampowered forum. The reaction was quite good, and I got lots of good critiques which I have tried to incorporate into this (hopefully final) version of the map. I am happy with the layout, and have just about reached my limit as far as the amount of polish I can push. Things I have done since last version:

- overall polish and increase of eye-candy

- created a simple trap (look for the red button and wall with hole)

- balanced weapons

- placed team specific spawns for tdm

- clipped all snags

- made ladders work smoothly (and added 1)

So, give the map a run-through and some good ole Snarkpit smackdown - I need the snark of approval before I release this puppy.





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Re: dm_swamplight
Posted by Myrk- on Mon Feb 21st at 10:18pm 2005


Looks pretty cool, but I know you know theres work to be done still with lighting... The light fixtures seem to be in random places. [addsig]



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Re: dm_swamplight
Posted by French Toast on Mon Feb 21st at 10:19pm 2005


Looks pretty sexy, I'll give this one a download and post later. [addsig]



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Re: dm_swamplight
Posted by Finger on Mon Feb 21st at 11:14pm 2005


"Looks pretty cool, but I know you know theres work to be done still with lighting... The light fixtures seem to be in random places. "

examples? I know there are some spotlights stuck in certain places, but I was more interested in dramatic effect, than 100% logical placement. Did you actually play the map, or are you going by screenshots alone?

Just 5 minutes ago, I was able to reproduce the error that keved was having with the green tile floors. I switched my shader detail to low, and they turn super ugly. I don't know what else to do with, other than replace them, as it doesn't seem to happen with any other texture.





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Re: dm_swamplight
Posted by Leperous on Tue Feb 22nd at 12:05am 2005


Apologies for the screenshot-only-critiquing, but why is #2 so bright? The map looks familiar though, I hope that the layout has been pulled together!



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Re: dm_swamplight
Posted by Finger on Tue Feb 22nd at 12:20am 2005


Hmm...screenie #2 doesn't look overly bright to me - certainly doesn't feel too bright ingame. Go play the darn map!



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Re: dm_swamplight
Posted by Finger on Tue Feb 22nd at 12:37am 2005


Ok, it looks like there are 2 versions of the green tile texture; one with bump and one without. The bump version seems to be missing an alpha map for the spec channel (hence the glossy, ugly, specularity), but the non-bump version seemed fine with low shader settings. The texture is Tilefloor019a_nobump (the one that looks ok); just incase anyone else is using this texture - you might want to check your map with low shader specs.



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Re: dm_swamplight
Posted by ReNo on Tue Feb 22nd at 2:47am 2005


I'll take a run around tomorrow and do a proper critique, but its a little late in the day for me to do one just now
[addsig]




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Re: dm_swamplight
Posted by Cassius on Tue Feb 22nd at 3:32am 2005


It doesn't look bad, but it looks strange. The lighting is pretty all-over-the-place. In almost every screenshot, there's something that doesn't look like it has any conceivable purpose.





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Re: dm_swamplight
Posted by Finger on Tue Feb 22nd at 5:47am 2005


Hmm, well don't judge it by screenshots alone, Cass. I'm not neccesarily going for strict realism here, but I did hope it felt solid, functional, and interesting. Maybe strange is good, I don't know - I definately want it to have some unique character.



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Re: dm_swamplight
Posted by Myrk- on Tue Feb 22nd at 11:37am 2005


Hurrah! Random Deathmatch arenas! All we need now is the Gauss gun... [addsig]



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Re: dm_swamplight
Posted by Finger on Tue Feb 22nd at 3:09pm 2005


Hmmm, well isn't the whole point of this endeavor to find create something that is fun to play and looks interesting. I don't see anything wrong with a random deathmatch arena, as long as it plays well and looks good. Do you even play this game Myrk?

Actually, I wouldn't mind a little gauss action.





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Re: dm_swamplight
Posted by ReNo on Tue Feb 22nd at 3:42pm 2005


Had a run about and I'm impressed. Quite an improvement over parasite in my opinion, and its significantly nicer in game than in the screenshots. Anyway, onto the feedback...



I like the intensity of this light on the ceiling, but does that shadowed line make sense? I'm not sure whats casting it, but perhaps I'm just overlooking it.



I like the ambience in this area, but looks wise its leaving a little to be desired. That just doesn't look like a convincing vertical end to the wall. Its kinda nitpicking, but some of the pipes kinda clash with the texture on the wall as well, when they just jut straight into it.



Kinda awkward looking at the corner there, might wanna try and make it look more smooth or something?



This line of debris or whatever looks odd. Try and make it more naturally shaped perhaps, with more variety in how far it comes into the swampy area?



I don't think this texture works as a floor texture. If you insist on using it, it could probably use better alignment.



If that stain decal is meant to be due to the duct, then you might wanna reorder the overlays so the duct hides the stain section it is above.



The texture used on this vent looks pretty crappy in my opinion. The duct on the end of it is too detailed and shiny compared to the body texture's simplicity, and it ends up looking pretty bad.



I really liked this bit, but felt the yellow gas looked a bit wierd. Not sure if it had crossed your mind, but this could prove to be a fairly decent trap by having a valve somewhere that increases the steam output and burns players below.



I would have liked this room to have a line of fire to the one below - maybe breakable glass or something? If you have purposefully blocked off the firing line for gameplay reasons then its cool.



Love it The heat waves were a bit of a shock at first (thought it was a visual glitch for a few seconds!) but its good to see them used. Could perhaps have used a more obvious source though, like some broken pipes inside that hole instead of just that intact one?



Not sure if I accidentally knocked something from under this or it begins like this, but this sawblade is just floating there...



4 barrels together like this seems over the top, particularly given that you can't get direct access to throw them. Chain explosions kill performance for a lot of people, and in HL2DM (unless they have fixed it) chain reactions only work once and after respawn any additional explosive barrels just get launched away from the first one to go off.



Another good example of the rather poor looking vents. I think you should use the prop ones or find a better texture.



My performance took a dive at this point, but I never noticed it stutter elsewhere. Looks like overuse of fancy, expensive materials...damn swapbuffers!

All in all, looking great. I love the layout for the most part, nowhere felt redundant or out of the way. Lighting was overall nicely handled. Should be a fun map
[addsig]




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Re: dm_swamplight
Posted by Finger on Tue Feb 22nd at 4:04pm 2005


Thanks Reno. All good observations, and motivation to keep polishing things up. Mucho appreciation!



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Re: dm_swamplight
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Feb 22nd at 4:08pm 2005


/me stops reading/looking, i am doing this critique next.. go read the one i did for keved just now guys. [addsig]



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Re: dm_swamplight
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Feb 22nd at 4:56pm 2005


NOTICE:I do not really read other peoples critiques till I have done my own. In this way I do not pre-judge a map and possibly alter my views before I have even seen the map. If I comment on something that someone else has already, consider it note worthy enough that more than one person saw it and move on. Lastly, as i stated before, due to the HL2's engine ability, machine size is going to effect a critique in some ways. I may not notice some slowdowns now that I used to on my older machine. I figure however, anything over 30 FPS is all goodness.

Now without further delay..

The light level in my screens always seems a bit dimmer than in game, as such it sounds odd when i say this light is to bright, cause the screen says otherwise but, take my word for it, this light is way to bright. [/color]

If this thing sparked this much for real, it would long ago have burned to a cinder. if possible its spark frequency needs reduced to an occasional outburst.

[color=tan] Texture misalignment, but my reason for the screen was to say that i felt the pillar/beam looked wrong in there and either needed removed or altered in some way. perhaps it was the fat that it reflected the outside blue, far more than the inside white light it was closer to. the white light should have overpowered the blue.

I know you can suck those things out of there with the gravity gun, but the narrow area looks wrong... almost n00b. no construction structure would have such a space between. at least none i have seen before.

that light, where is it all coming from?

nice glass, but would be nicer with small opening to fire through to below. not big enough to walk through, just fire through.

that patch on the floor, reflected like ice, what is it?

from an engineering standpoint, i can say honestly that beam will not work to hold the weight above.

skybox way to low.. my son fired off an exploding drum and it contacted the sky and blew up

heavy weapon, easy access = bad.

those heat ripples were a nice touch.

texture misalignment, very noticeable too.

as apparent, most of my comments are small issues, i could find nothing blatant to complain about other than the maps vast size. I am not even sure i saw it all, as i got lost several times. there is no real identifying features in this map to say "go here"

architecturally, i love it and it plays smooth, course that could be only my new machine too

nice job old man.

[addsig]




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Re: dm_swamplight
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Feb 22nd at 5:22pm 2005


i went to the exact same place Duncan did to see how it looked from my angle/perspective. the difference was phenomenal. note that i am in almost exactly the same position.

this is a perfect example of how difficult it is going to be to not only critique these new maps, but to construct maps that will play on low end PC's..

[addsig]




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Re: dm_swamplight
Posted by habboi on Tue Feb 22nd at 5:32pm 2005


Looks Great, and use the tips these guys suggested and it will be a great map [addsig]



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Re: dm_swamplight
Posted by Gwil on Tue Feb 22nd at 5:41pm 2005


Finger, to further ReNo's chain reaction explosion note, through my extensive research (read: playing HL2DM nonstop ) I've found that the chain reaction issue can cause clients (and servers) to go loopy and just crash.

Might be worth reducing the numbers.

Also, props piled on spawn areas disarm the player for all weapons bar the default (SMG), so try and avoid having stacks of props near spawn areas.

EDIT: Also, weapons placed too close to walls, if hit by an explosion (and sail through the air cos of the physics) they have a tendency to disappear out of the level and never return. [addsig]




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Re: dm_swamplight
Posted by ReNo on Tue Feb 22nd at 5:49pm 2005


Thing is, my computer isn't even low end, its a mid range really. I'm running a decent system bar my graphics card, which, being a GF4 ti4200, isn't exactly that bad either. Almost every map I've seen with poor performance has been so due to this swap buffers bar
[addsig]





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