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dm_waterwerx_final
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 Re: dm_waterwerx_final
Posted by Juim on Mon Oct 17th at 3:25pm 2005

Download link should be before the end of October.

Thanks Morphine, I'll look forward to your comments.





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 Re: dm_waterwerx_final
Posted by Dark|Killer on Mon Oct 17th at 3:31pm 2005

Hey Juim nice map you got there, and dont know about any last versions <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/sad.gif"> sorry, but im willing to play this one, if you have a bsp right now...you could upload it on www.ihud.com and i can play-test is for you...
Nice map dude <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> - Keep it up <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">

-Dark



.::Dark|Masta::. - One name. One legend.



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 Re: dm_waterwerx_final
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Mon Oct 17th at 5:20pm 2005

If you can get a download up between wednesday and friday I can definitely play it at home (I'm driving back down from school for a few days for fall break).

Otherwise, I wont be able to do a run through. I'm without HL2 at school.

Make some last minute changes, and PM me a download link if you're not ready to release it to the general public. I'd be really happy to run through at home.




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 Re: dm_waterwerx_final
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Thu Oct 20th at 2:16am 2005

Juim, I'm home now until Saturday. Post a download and I'll give her the old run around.




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 Re: dm_waterwerx_final
Posted by Juim on Thu Nov 3rd at 2:53am 2005

OK folks, lemme have it. I am basically done with the layout. I need to add some clochkies and what-nots for presentation, and some minor tweaking to some areas, but I am mostly interested in layout/weapon placement thoughts, and any glaring errors. Also can somebody run this on a linux server and see if it crashes it or not?. I am alittle worried about that. Sorry it took so long. Thanks in advance for the comments.

http://gamersdiner.com/downloads/dm_waterwerx.zip




Quote from Nietzsche....God is dead
Quote from God....Nietzsche is dead



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 Re: dm_waterwerx_final
Posted by Crono on Thu Nov 3rd at 2:59am 2005

I would, but I don't have a machine running on Linux that has enough space image (Or resources, I'm sure)

But, if you can do a normal dedicated server ... it should be fine ... right?


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: dm_waterwerx_final
Posted by Juim on Thu Nov 3rd at 3:15am 2005

Yah, runs fine on my PC.



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 Re: dm_waterwerx_final
Posted by Juim on Fri Nov 4th at 12:21pm 2005

hmmm, 4 downloads and zero comments. This does not bode well young padawan.


Quote from Nietzsche....God is dead
Quote from God....Nietzsche is dead



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 Re: dm_waterwerx_final
Posted by Underdog on Fri Nov 4th at 1:55pm 2005

? quoting Juim
hmmm, 4 downloads and zero comments. This does not bode well young padawan.

You have gaps in updating your map here that measure in weeks and you want replies in a day. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_lol.gif">

Today is Friday, I'd expect that you'll get your feedback sometime tomorrow. Look at that stupid demographic poll. Most of these tykes are in school.

I however, need to work on my car today. I would hope to take a peek at this map before tonight. If I can, I will try to post something, even if its not to indepth.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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 Re: dm_waterwerx_final
Posted by Crono on Fri Nov 4th at 5:33pm 2005

I just downloaded it, I'll run through it this afternoon.


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: dm_waterwerx_final
Posted by Underdog on Sat Nov 5th at 12:55am 2005

I played your spaceship map a few times. This map is not in the same league.

Sorry I cannot be more encouraging. I tried to take some screens but when I saw the quantity and remembered I no longer had broadband I caved in.

This map doesn't suck, but...(shrugs)

If I had to put it in a nutshell. Its to empty and there is no debris.

I would rather post and have you not like it, than make it look like I ignored your map.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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 Re: dm_waterwerx_final
Posted by Juim on Sat Nov 5th at 6:33am 2005

Thx Underdog, but this is beta 1. Klingon was at beta 6 or 7 I believe before I finally released it. This release is for basic layout design, and texture/lighting/weapon placement suggestions. Eye candy and architecture sweetening will follow soon thereafter in the next betas.



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 Re: dm_waterwerx_final
Posted by Underdog on Sat Nov 5th at 1:44pm 2005

It took me 7+ minutes to download this map. I am interested so don't take my posts as negative.

To date, I have downloaded less than 1/2 a dozen maps because it just takes to long. This is not your fault but I do want you aware of my perspective when choosing maps. I pick out very few. Yours was one. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

I have lost many posts since I have been here. I am not sure if its because of my connection or if its the Snarkpits. However, I would have been quite disappointed had I lost a critique that would have took quite a while to make.

It may take some work, but I think I am going to work out some kind of an HTML page of my own that I can work on offline. This way I will have a backup copy of any I do or may do in the future.

Again, sorry I couldn't have been more positive. Perhaps in a later beta.




There is no history until something happens, then there is.



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 Re: dm_waterwerx_final
Posted by Finger on Sat Nov 12th at 6:01am 2005

Juim, I think you have a lot of good things in this map. I see potential with many of the rooms you have constructed, artistically, and gameplay-wise. My main problem with the map is that it seems a little unfocused overall - sprawling in places. It feels like the map may have grown as you were building and getting new ideas. I've had this happen before, and you can easily smother a good map with 'great ideas' and additions. For this map to work in deathmatch - really play well - I think it needs a much simpler and tighter layout.

Also, when building more realistic maps, the reference to real world stuff needs to be solid. Subconsciously, people will decide whether this place feels real or not and I believe that has a large impact on whether the map feels 'right'. If it's a factory, it needs to look as if it functions like a factory. I think this map comes close in places, but lacks some consistency and focus of theme that would really sell it. Maybe deconstruct it; think of how this plant would function and figure out a common thread to tie the different areas together adn make them feel more real. Maybe a very neat, large, system of pipes?

Anyway.... I definately see some nuggets of gold in this map, I just think they need to be mined and polished a little more.





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 Re: dm_waterwerx_final
Posted by ReNo on Fri Jan 20th at 7:15pm 2006

Just so you guys don't think I'm crazy for posting a critique of such an old map, it's purely because Juim PM'd me about a specific issue for the map and I got carried away <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

My comments are very much small scale - I don't have many general gameplay comments, but I think Finger hit the nail on the head about it being sprawling and unfocused. Some really good and interesting areas are diluted with superflouous others. Anyways, on with the show...

Oh and by the way, beware, this is a rather monstrous critique - I'm flexing my muscles after not having done one for freaking ages.

image

The floor/walls/ceiling lack contrast in here - everything is so grey that it looks really boring. The lighting is also purely functional which doesn't help matters - the big yellowish light provides sufficient illumination for gameplay, but it doesn't do anything for the mood or atmosphere. Get some little drains or something in the wall near the floor, and put lights behind them or something. Small touches can make the world of difference.

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These stairs, along with most others in the map, are too stumpy and steep. I normally stick to a 3:2 ration for depth:height of steps, so for steps with a height of 8 make them 12 units deep for example. It feels far more natural and smooth to navigate that way.

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I liked this area - far more atmospheric than the last one. The pools of light on the walls are playing the biggest role in making this a visually interesting scene - do this more often in your mapping and you'll be on the right track. I'm a bit concerned that it is a very cluttered area, but as most of the map is far less so, this variation could keep things interesting. Making the walls a little less flat (perhaps shallow arch shaped indents/alcoves) could make this corridor even nicer to look at, and give opporunity for even more interesting lighting setups with supplementary fixtures and different colours.

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This door seems a bit wierd to me - possible too short for its width. An arch shaped doorway may also be more in keeping with the arched corridor it leads from, though may not work with the other side.

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Again with the awkward stairs, and it looks like the wall texture is overscaled here.

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Almost everything about the wall on the left is really cool - the texture works, the staggered pyramid pillars look great, and the light fixtures fit in nicely - but you let it down with the boring and bland ceiling. Ceilings are typically a trouble area for less experienced mappers and god knows I've struggled with making them interesting, but to make this room something special it needs to be improved. The pillars set you up nicely for providing support beams or something - follow it through and the area could be improved no end.

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This door is barely tall enough to let the player through - give some space to stop it seeming like it is designed for a midget <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

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This bit is looking a bit awkward. For one, the scale between the textures on either side of the corner are off, and it stands out even more so due to the metal pillar thing and the obvious discrepancy in width. Secondly, the transition from the brick corridor to the concrete room shouldn't be so sudden - put in a trim around the threshold or something as an intermediary.

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After the lovely wall and pillars from a couple of screenshots back, this other wall within the same room is criminally flat. Having such a long flat expanse looks really boring, and is made more so due to the lack of anything between it and the equally flat ceiling.

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I think if this glass was breakable you could get some cool gunfights here - flinging grenades into the hut and the like <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

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The catwalk in the last room was near the ceiling but got away with it to an extent because it was a catwalk. This area doesn't pull it off as it is a proper room with a proper floor, and really needs it's ceiling raised.

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Why not continue the internal walls with the arches in them on the floor below onto this one? A second taller arch for this level would be far more interesting than a flat texture trim across the ceiling.

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I don't know if this is something to do with the SDK update glitches, or my settings, or something else, but the water looked really poor for me when viewed from above. If you get down to the water level and look along then it is fine, but from above it looks like a featureless brown expanse. If it is the actual water texture, I'd suggest replacing it.

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These seemed too intense to me - I think a more subtle red would work better.

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Now this I like! Subtle pillars on the walls, internal arches breaking up the ceiling, functional and aesthetic alcoves dotted along the right hand wall - this is the stuff you want to be doing more often. One thing you could do here is put clip brushes around the small pillars to stop people getting snagged.

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I'm not so keen on this room. The floor grate texture cuts out not too far from the player due to texture filtering, leaving an obvious and sudden cut-off line after which is just an expanse of that not-so-great looking water. It's really just not all that suited to use over large expanses to be honest, meaning you may want to reconsider using a masked texture for such a large flooring area. The ceiling in here is also entirely flat and of uniform height throughout, and the walls aren't much better. From a gameplay standpoint, the internal walls provide some potential, but the back corner has no real purpose since it has no items and no connections.

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This area was also pretty awkward - bland architecture, steep stairs, and the textures don't work to well together in my opinion.

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Pretty cool area, though not very believable. The ivy does provide some visual interest but strikes me as out of place in this scenario. Also, while this feels like a rather formal lobby area, the routes from it lead to a sewer, a water tank, and some sort of treatment room, which doesn't seem right to me. Put in a more logical entrance, such as an elevator or front door - just for show of course, not to add any more routes or anything.

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These disks are hovering away from the wall, but I really do like the effect they have on the room <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

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This furniture looks painfully out of place in a lobby, as I KNOW you must be aware <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">

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I like this area a lot - the water tank looks good, the steam effect is a lovely touch, the lighting works well, and the floor grating is perfect for the scene. On the other hand, it falls apart as you travel upward - the ceiling texture clashes with the brick and robs your attention by being so bright, and as usual it is completely flat. I'd use another texture that is darker, and try having some trim around the edges, and maybe some angled skylights or something. Good potential here, would be a shame not to take advantage of it.

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This corridor is too long to run in my opinion. A person with a crossbow at one end has ages to pick off people running along it before they can reasonably fight back. I'd suggest breaking it up with a side room or two that act as parallel corridors - have a door at either end so you can run into the side room, and exit further along the main corridor. You could then put in some windows to let people see what is going on in one from the other.

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The corner area could use some light.

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This stairwell is really pretty tall without offering the player any route choice. I don't know how it could be reworked at this stage, but just thought I'd put the point out there.

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You are pretty inconsistant with your texturing here - chopping and changing from the ridged concrete texture on the right and the flat concrete texture in front.

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This is one of my least favourite areas of the map to be honest. There is no archictectural interest to speak of whatsoever bar the token pillars - everything comes from the props scattered around it. The textures also strike me as very gaudy and clashing - too much of a stark contrast to the set established through the rest of the map.

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Obviously the texture issue is a glitch, but I notice you always have your health and armour machines in pairs. Strikes me as an odd gameplay choice personally.

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Is this dead end room there on purpose? Also, the skybox isn't really working here - the scale is widly off with those tiny buildings sat a few metres away from the window <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">

All in all, there is a lot of things to like in this map, but there is too much that is unpolished and dragging it down. At this point I'd say it's probably best to fix a few of the issues and call it a day, chalking it up to experience. Whether or not any of my comments affect this map, I hope they help you out for any future projects. Nice first effor with the engine anyways, looking forward to seeing what you do with this or whatever is next.




Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net



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 Re: dm_waterwerx_final
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Jan 20th at 10:58pm 2006

Duncan, images = perfect. quantity = painful.

Would I be able to entice you into that pocket program I have for making the album critiques I have been using?

Its a tiny thing and you can preset all aspects of the end product in advance of pressing "Generate"

Text color, thumbnail size, page color, image size and links colors are all preset.

Gimme a yell.

and, thanx for the great file sizes.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: dm_waterwerx_final
Posted by Juim on Fri Jan 20th at 11:22pm 2006

Reno, thank you so much for your in depth walk through. BTW, for anybody else reading this, the download does not currently match Renos screens. I am at beta 3 already and am having video card troubles, so I must go shopping in a few weeks

I am going to incorporate almost all of your thoughts into the final compile, and will move on to my next project, which will involve my learning the displacement tool. No idea about the subject matter though.

As Reno said this is an old map, except I work 80 hours a week(16 hours a day and never the same 16 hours) so I only get to work on this in bits and pieces between fits of exhaustion, house remodeling, and all of life in general.

Again thank you very much!





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 Re: dm_waterwerx_final
Posted by ReNo on Sat Jan 21st at 1:11am 2006

No problem mate, glad to be of assistance <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

Orph, I did use that program once before actually and it was pretty handy, but I wanted to get this out the way today and didn't really know what I would be looking for to download <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif"> Fire me a link or whatever and I'd certainly consider using it again for larger critiques like this.




Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net



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 Re: dm_waterwerx_final
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Jan 21st at 1:56am 2006

Web Album Generator

/me only hopes its still a freeware proggy.

Good luck.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: dm_waterwerx_final
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Feb 15th at 1:47pm 2006

/me downloads. Will post my thoughts soonish. <br> <br>[edit] 18 minutes and 10 seconds later I begin my quest. Man do I miss my DSL. :*( <br> <br>[edit2] Sadly, this map needed to pass through the Snarkpit filtration system once more before release. <br> <br>Tis a good 1st release. Could'a been a great 1st.




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