My first map release. Comments and critique are very much welcome.
thanks esp to 'addicted to morphine' for giving me a detailed break
down of some problems. Like you said, heres a thread for you to rip me
a new one ;P
1
Re: dm_surrender
Posted by Push6 on Wed May 11th at 2:05am 2005
Posted by Push6 on Wed May 11th at 2:05am 2005
Push6
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Re: dm_surrender
Posted by French Toast on Wed May 11th at 3:13am 2005
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Posted by French Toast on Wed May 11th at 3:13am 2005
Just from looking at the shots, it looks nice. I don't play DM,
but a lot of people say hallways are bad. Also, if I were playing
I might want some more cover, but that's a personal thing from playing
too much CS.
Lookin nice though. I would download it, but my Hard Drive crapped out, so there's still like 5 days until Steam's done with updating my stuff.
[addsig]
Lookin nice though. I would download it, but my Hard Drive crapped out, so there's still like 5 days until Steam's done with updating my stuff.
[addsig]
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Re: dm_surrender
Posted by DrGlass on Wed May 11th at 3:18am 2005
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Posted by DrGlass on Wed May 11th at 3:18am 2005
screen 1: nice prop work with the pips, pretty good lighting.
Could use a small sharp light to get some shadow contrast in
there. Also, turn off shadows on thoes fences.
screen 2: curves look nice, bland lighting and boring floor/ceiling and repeating hallway dont.
screen 3: That dust looks like snow, try and make them smaller and put the alpha around 150.
screen 4: I dont like the light beams, tone them down a bit. The lighting is kinda blan, try and make those ceiling lights a dark yellow.
screen 5: too narow and empty
looks like a great start, get the lighting and detail from room one and spread it over the map and it will be great.
[addsig]
screen 2: curves look nice, bland lighting and boring floor/ceiling and repeating hallway dont.
screen 3: That dust looks like snow, try and make them smaller and put the alpha around 150.
screen 4: I dont like the light beams, tone them down a bit. The lighting is kinda blan, try and make those ceiling lights a dark yellow.
screen 5: too narow and empty
looks like a great start, get the lighting and detail from room one and spread it over the map and it will be great.
[addsig]
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Re: dm_surrender
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Wed May 11th at 3:44am 2005
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Wed May 11th at 3:44am 2005
It's too bad my comment was erased with the creation of this thread,
but hopefully you remember what I pointed out. In case you
don't... here it is again... except with pictures!
Like I said before your two main problems were not enough lighting and not enough connectivity. I already suggested ways to improve the connectivity, but here are some shots of areas that need lighting:
This is kind of ridiculous. All I can make out is a wooden box. You need some sort of lighting here. Just in case you can't tell where this is, I'm facing a corner where if you walk up to it and turn right you're looking down this straight hall:
The glows on those lights are really way too big and bright. Tone it down a bit, it's very distracting.
I liked this room for some reason. Although it was kind of weird to have a combine console in the same room as the Resistance type computer set up. I liked that this is where you get the ar2. Like I said in the comments thread I think it would work out will if you connected the back of this room to another area of the map.
This is looking back down the hall. You need some lights on the ceiling because I can't see much. All the work you're doing to make the ceiling look interesting is going to waste if it's so dark.
I feel like I'm looking at the face of God. That thing is so blindingly bright. Tone it down to a third of that.
I like your usage of the spot light effect. The direction of the beams does seem a little strange. Shouldn't they be pointing to different places on the same x axis? Also, I didn't understand why you had those platforms holding up barrels and boxes on the wall. I appreciate your attempt to make the wall interesting, but... that just didn't make much sense as a storage place. Perhaps you could make a recess in the wall with rolled up shutters that contain the boxes and explosive barrels. That at least would make more sense.
I prop jumped up here in a couple seconds, and I realized this would be a pretty good camping spot considering how dark it is in this room and the fact that a crossbow spawns a little bit below me. Some more lights would discourage this type of deviousness (and the frustration that it would cause for the victims
)
I don't know if others can see what I'm talking about but I really liked the temperature effect coming out of this grille. I wish you had used this in more places around the map. It's just a snazzy use of the Source engine. Your map is small enough and runs smooth enough that you can afford to put some more of these nice aesthetic details in.
Once again, you need more lighting, and you need to cut down the glow effect. This room should be connected to another area to eliminate the dead end. I noticed the swamp room was directly below this. Perhaps a ventilation shaft with a ladder connecting these to areas? This room would also benefit from more prop_physics and some loose trash. It's too clean and empty right now. Try adding some geometry to the walls. Trims, recessed lighting... or just something else to spice this room up.
Daaaark. Aside from the ceiling and the spotlight this area kind of boring. You can fix this with more interesting textures or some subtle geometry changes.
Thankfully this area was well lit (the only one that I thought was bright enough). The smoke coming out of the pipes was way too thick so when it disappeared it looked strange. Try making the clouds less dense.
I could not figure out how to get that healthkit or battery.
These two decals looked awkward. Perhaps you could make a thin cylindrical brush poking out of the wall so it doesn't look so flat.
This area has some potential. Apart from it being too dark there are a couple things wrong with it. First off, I liked the idea of a dirty sewer type area, but... what's with the grass? I don't see any sunlight. Also -- the ventilation duct looks out of place. I'm not sure what you would replace it with... perhaps that ladder I mentioned in the shotgun room.
I liked the idea of having weapons/ammo/health that you can only reach with the gravity gun, but I wish they were a bit closer. In a combat situation I wouldn't want to have to wait around while I slowly pull the crossbow down the loooong tube.
I like the vertical nature of this area. Again I wish it were brighter. Maybe some spot lights shining down from that upper area? Or a brighter shaft of light coming down from that grate?
I thought this corridor was too dark and too thin. Any battles here would be pretty boring because the hallway is so long and there's no cover.
That just looks bad. Move the props or the geometry.
The natural light seems way too dark. Brighten it up, because while the dust motes are a nice touch they don't seem believable in such weak lighting. The room itself is also way too dark. If a brighter light environment doesn't fix it, then add some more light fixtures. The glow coming from the combine consoles isn't enough.
Anyway -- work on the lighting and connectivity and this map will look and play much better.
Keep it up, looking forward to the next beta.
[addsig]
Like I said before your two main problems were not enough lighting and not enough connectivity. I already suggested ways to improve the connectivity, but here are some shots of areas that need lighting:
This is kind of ridiculous. All I can make out is a wooden box. You need some sort of lighting here. Just in case you can't tell where this is, I'm facing a corner where if you walk up to it and turn right you're looking down this straight hall:
The glows on those lights are really way too big and bright. Tone it down a bit, it's very distracting.
I liked this room for some reason. Although it was kind of weird to have a combine console in the same room as the Resistance type computer set up. I liked that this is where you get the ar2. Like I said in the comments thread I think it would work out will if you connected the back of this room to another area of the map.
This is looking back down the hall. You need some lights on the ceiling because I can't see much. All the work you're doing to make the ceiling look interesting is going to waste if it's so dark.
I feel like I'm looking at the face of God. That thing is so blindingly bright. Tone it down to a third of that.
I like your usage of the spot light effect. The direction of the beams does seem a little strange. Shouldn't they be pointing to different places on the same x axis? Also, I didn't understand why you had those platforms holding up barrels and boxes on the wall. I appreciate your attempt to make the wall interesting, but... that just didn't make much sense as a storage place. Perhaps you could make a recess in the wall with rolled up shutters that contain the boxes and explosive barrels. That at least would make more sense.
I prop jumped up here in a couple seconds, and I realized this would be a pretty good camping spot considering how dark it is in this room and the fact that a crossbow spawns a little bit below me. Some more lights would discourage this type of deviousness (and the frustration that it would cause for the victims
)
I don't know if others can see what I'm talking about but I really liked the temperature effect coming out of this grille. I wish you had used this in more places around the map. It's just a snazzy use of the Source engine. Your map is small enough and runs smooth enough that you can afford to put some more of these nice aesthetic details in.
Once again, you need more lighting, and you need to cut down the glow effect. This room should be connected to another area to eliminate the dead end. I noticed the swamp room was directly below this. Perhaps a ventilation shaft with a ladder connecting these to areas? This room would also benefit from more prop_physics and some loose trash. It's too clean and empty right now. Try adding some geometry to the walls. Trims, recessed lighting... or just something else to spice this room up.
Daaaark. Aside from the ceiling and the spotlight this area kind of boring. You can fix this with more interesting textures or some subtle geometry changes.
Thankfully this area was well lit (the only one that I thought was bright enough). The smoke coming out of the pipes was way too thick so when it disappeared it looked strange. Try making the clouds less dense.
I could not figure out how to get that healthkit or battery.
These two decals looked awkward. Perhaps you could make a thin cylindrical brush poking out of the wall so it doesn't look so flat.
This area has some potential. Apart from it being too dark there are a couple things wrong with it. First off, I liked the idea of a dirty sewer type area, but... what's with the grass? I don't see any sunlight. Also -- the ventilation duct looks out of place. I'm not sure what you would replace it with... perhaps that ladder I mentioned in the shotgun room.
I liked the idea of having weapons/ammo/health that you can only reach with the gravity gun, but I wish they were a bit closer. In a combat situation I wouldn't want to have to wait around while I slowly pull the crossbow down the loooong tube.
I like the vertical nature of this area. Again I wish it were brighter. Maybe some spot lights shining down from that upper area? Or a brighter shaft of light coming down from that grate?
I thought this corridor was too dark and too thin. Any battles here would be pretty boring because the hallway is so long and there's no cover.
That just looks bad. Move the props or the geometry.
The natural light seems way too dark. Brighten it up, because while the dust motes are a nice touch they don't seem believable in such weak lighting. The room itself is also way too dark. If a brighter light environment doesn't fix it, then add some more light fixtures. The glow coming from the combine consoles isn't enough.
Anyway -- work on the lighting and connectivity and this map will look and play much better.
Keep it up, looking forward to the next beta.
[addsig]
Re: dm_surrender
Posted by Push6 on Wed May 11th at 9:56am 2005
Posted by Push6 on Wed May 11th at 9:56am 2005
Thanks ever so much for all the comments, I'll get to works sorting out the things you mentioned.
[addsig]
[addsig]
Push6
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Re: dm_surrender
Posted by Push6 on Wed May 11th at 10:47pm 2005
Posted by Push6 on Wed May 11th at 10:47pm 2005
Push6
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Re: dm_surrender
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Wed May 11th at 11:42pm 2005
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Wed May 11th at 11:42pm 2005
I can't seem to get the download to work, but I'll try again later.
[addsig]
[addsig]
Re: dm_surrender
Posted by DrGlass on Wed May 11th at 11:55pm 2005
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Posted by DrGlass on Wed May 11th at 11:55pm 2005
I'll wait to post my review till you get beta 2 up.
[addsig]
[addsig]
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Re: dm_surrender
Posted by Push6 on Thu May 12th at 1:39am 2005
Posted by Push6 on Thu May 12th at 1:39am 2005
Curses. I'll try and sort it out in the morning :/
[addsig]
[addsig]
Push6
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Re: dm_surrender
Posted by Push6 on Thu May 12th at 2:17pm 2005
Posted by Push6 on Thu May 12th at 2:17pm 2005
Push6
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Re: dm_surrender
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Tue May 10th at 9:21pm 2005
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Tue May 10th at 9:21pm 2005
I just downloaded it and gave it a runthrough. It is very very dark. I don't like running around with my flashlight on. It's a shame it's so dark because you obviously put effort into decaling the walls and making the ceilings and walls interesting. Unfortunately 90% your effort goes to waste because I can't see the majority of your level. The only place that I thought was well lit enough was the little corner with the shotgun and the smoke.
<br>
<br>Your next problem is connectivity. The map doesn't present you with enough choices for routes. For example, if you're running down towards the swamp area there's no other way out. Once you get down there either route you take (the sewer pipe or the long thin tunnel) just loops you back into that very room. And the only way out is back up into the area with the containers and standing spot light. The rest of the map follows a similar circuitousness, although it's not quite as bad as the cul de sac you've got going on in the lower part of your level. The only really good part about your layout is the section where you can drop from the upper level down into the aforementioned cul de sac. It offers the only variety in terms of layout.
<br>
<br>Here are some suggestions to improve the layout, just off the top of my head:
<br>1. Connect the dark combine room with all the pipes to the room with the shotgun and the cold effects coming out of the grate. By doing this you will eliminated two dead ends and at least give people the option of approaching the central area from a different angle.
<br>
<br>2. Incorporate more Z-axis mobility like the area where you drop down into the water. There are plenty of areas where you have two rooms on top of one another. Why not add a maintainance ladder connecting the two rooms? For example... connect the swamp room with the room above it.
<br>
<br>3. Perhaps you could put a teleporter in that flooded room and have it take you back to the combine room with all the pipes. Make it a 1 way teleport.
<br>
<br>The performance of the map is fine, it runs great on my computer, because it's such a small map. That being said, you can definitely add some more props_physics, as this map doesn't really have many things you can toss around.
<br>
<br>The env_glows you've got going on are waaay to bright. When I look down some of your upper hallways I feel like a deer standing on a foggy highway with giant trucks bearing down on me. The glow you've got going on with the standing spotlight in the room with the containers is just ridiculous! It's like I'm staring at God. Tone those down and the effect will look much better. That being said your spotlight effects look great.
<br>
<br>I appreciate the fact that you included an env_soundscape. I liked it, definitely helped create atmosphere in the level.
<br>
<br>I have other comments on improving the way particular parts look. I have a bunch of screenshots taken to illustrate my points. If you startup a forum thread I'd be happy to give you feedback, kind of like I did here: <a href="http://www.snarkpit.net/forums.php?forum=2&topic=4641&chap=2&findpost=newest#newposts" target="_blank">http://www.snarkpit.net/forums.php?forum=2&topic=4641&chap=2&findpost=newest#newposts</a>
<br>
<br>Anyway, good start. The only problems I saw are easily remedied by adding more lights and improving the connectivity. Hopefully you will take my suggestions into consideration and make some big changes for your next beta. I think this map has the potential to be a tight and fun map for 4-8 people.
Re: dm_surrender
Posted by omegaslayer on Tue May 10th at 7:11pm 2005
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Posted by omegaslayer on Tue May 10th at 7:11pm 2005
Just from the screen shots it looks too dark for a deathmatch map, maybe add in some flares like in dm_resistance to light it up!
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Re: dm_surrender
Posted by Push6 on Wed May 11th at 1:43am 2005
Posted by Push6 on Wed May 11th at 1:43am 2005
Thank you so much 'Addicted to Morphine', those are exactly the kind of comments im looking for. So very helpfull. i'll be sure to take all your points into consideration for sure and sort it out. thank you. Il shall add some more lights, and try and sort the connectivity out. Like you guys said, it is pretty bad 
. thanks again for comments, your helping me so much.
. thanks again for comments, your helping me so much.
Push6
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