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 Re: Hex
Posted by ReNo on Fri Jul 1st at 2:49pm 2005

Not much to show just now, but figured I should make a thread before any others comment in the map profile. I still don't think its an ideal system having both...

So yeah, the map description says it all really. This is my WIP entry for this year's contest, and is somewhat akin to my entry last year in that it is a flatshaded island. This time around though, everything is based on a hexagonal grid. Pretty crazy I know, any isn't exactly taking advantage of the source engine too impressively, but its a very fun way to map, and its something different (which is I guess the point of this contest).

Comments, suggestions, criticism, etc... are all welcome. I'd particularly be interested in hearing whether you think I should add in non-hexagonal detail or keep going with the way it currently looks. Also ideas on what I could do about physics props, as obviously nothing "usual" is going to fit here.




Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net



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 Re: Hex
Posted by Myrk- on Fri Jul 1st at 3:03pm 2005

We don't have both... When you post a forum thread it removes comments... I prefer having both, but maybe only comments on final versions so you can see if its worth downloading.

Anyway, your map. Looks cool, but I feel its lacking- not quite there. Maybe your should expand the grid to a 3 dimensional hexangonal grid? That would be crazy. Just looks like its lacking detail and I can't see how much could be added on the current theme, which may be a little too HL1 based.

Also ask yourself- does it have to be an island? It restricts your choices of what you can do considerably. I think maybe a Hexangonal gridded HL2 style level would be interesting, like an alternate universe where everything is hexagonal, but relates to the existing world.




-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-



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 Re: Hex
Posted by ReNo on Fri Jul 1st at 3:18pm 2005

The fact it removes the comments is my problem - by starting this thread, the 4 comments that had been made are now deleted. Anyway I posted my concerns in the suggestions thread, no point discussing them here I guess.

Initially I was going for something entirely abstract, then I played around with a beehive kinda thing, but eventually I settled on this island setting. I think its because I've been playing the Wind Waker that I've been turned back to this sort of theme <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif"> I'm not really sure what you mean about an alternate universe where everything is hexagonal - you mean like doorways, windows, pillars, etc... are hexagonal? I guess that could work, but I don't think I'm gonna have too much time to work on this level before the deadline, and my current approach is very playful and simplistic. Its like Lego or something - anybody could do this, its quick and easy, and the creativity isn't at all hampered by technical ability.

The 3D hexagonal grid idea sounds far too complex in my opinion. Hexagonal prisms all slot together nicely on a grid, but I don't even know if a shape exists that comprises wholy of hexagonal sides <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif"> I think "that would be crazy" is a fitting summary of that idea! I agree that this is currently somewhat HL1 style of complexity, but it does mean I can make it pretty damn huge and still have good performance. I'll try and make it impressive in scale and grandeur as opposed to small scale details.




Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net



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 Re: Hex
Posted by Myrk- on Fri Jul 1st at 3:40pm 2005

The HL2 alternate reality idea was kinda, for example, remaking a map, but using only hexagonal shapes. But yer, would take a while. Whens the deadline? I haven't even got an idea yet, but I'm sure I can chug out a map quickly when I know my direction.


-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-



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 Re: Hex
Posted by BlisTer on Fri Jul 1st at 3:59pm 2005

i agree with myrk that it looks too simple and HL1 -even with the fact that probably only 10 ppl in the world are using hexagonal grid right now That technologically new approach will soon be overlooked i think, and ppl will only see the simple shapes and colors.

If you restrict yourself to hexagons in 2D you can only work in terms of pillars -like in those screens- which will always keep it too simple i think, even if you make it impressive in scale and grandeur. As great as your last-year's entry looked, i dunno if you're gonna achieve the same "wow"-effect (+the fact that it's not new anymore, only the hexagonal bit)

Anyway, it seems everyone is going back for their last year's theme so far




These words are my diaries screaming out loud



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 Re: Hex
Posted by G.Ballblue on Fri Jul 1st at 5:52pm 2005

? quoting BlisTer
As great as your last-year's entry looked, i dunno if you're gonna achieve the same "wow"-effect (+the fact that it's not new anymore, only the hexagonal bit)

I got a pretty good amount of "wow" when I saw the visual style of the map

I'm assuming you are using the cel-shading method? It's hard to tell if the black lines are somehow built into the textures, or if they are actual polygons.

Based on what I have played of the original HL1 map, my major recomendation would be to make the water... actual water <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif"> I realize, that since this is DM that could be hard to do for the engine, but meh, worth a shot I guess.




Breaking the laws of mapping since 2003 and doing a damn fine job at it



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 Re: Hex
Posted by ReNo on Fri Jul 1st at 6:55pm 2005

I suppose I could make it actual water in the way it acts, but I'd still want it to be the flat blue that you can see in the screenshots. Better having bodies and whatnot floating around as opposed to sitting on a solid lump of blue however <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> HL2 is pretty good at doing large areas of water, so it shouldn't be a performance issue (particularly if I'm not using any fancy water effects like refraction and reflection).

It isn't cel shading, at the moment I just have black brushes around the edges of all the faces. Its not ideal as it bumps up the poly count when black trimmed textures would do the trick, but it was just last nights experimentation so nothing was finalised. I'm pretty set on this theme now I think (its quick and easy - if I feel like something else as well, I can probably manage) so I'll work on optimising the technique. Performance should be fine regardless, as even if there are a lot of world polys on show, the materials used are all very basic. They just use the unlitgeneric shader, meaning they are just single pass diffuse maps, without the addtional complexity of even lightmaps, let alone normal or specular maps.




Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net



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 Re: Hex
Posted by Windows 98 on Fri Jul 1st at 7:50pm 2005

Exactly how big are these hexagons gunna be?



http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/8521/windows981dk.jpg

Nickelplate is my dad



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 Re: Hex
Posted by Finger on Sat Jul 2nd at 12:51am 2005

I like it sofar... fan of windwaker <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> What would be cool is to possibly mirror the general architecture here, with an alternate 'realistic' setting. You could then warp from abstract to realistic at certain points of the map and get the sense of an alternate yet parrallel universes.





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 Re: Hex
Posted by Cassius on Sat Jul 2nd at 3:05am 2005

Not too much of a jump from Peter Manson cliffs, really...



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 Re: Hex
Posted by Crono on Sat Jul 2nd at 8:07am 2005

Something to make it dynamic would be switches that can be shot (or elaboratly triggered though some crazy machine) to cause the hexagons to raise and lower. You could even have some come out of the sky and crush players. You could have them fan out and make a spiral platform to a domination weapon after some series of events occur.

Finger has a cool idea too.

something that would be pretty cool, and disorienting, is having a teleport at the edges of the map that circle the player around. You could have "traps" that fling them in directions and such. A "flip" grid on the bottom that would rotate up with a switch, trigger, whatever, revealing the same land mass, but realistic would be really cool. Obviously, launching the player in the process. You could probably get certain paths going (based on force and position, with some testing you'd figure out common spots in the air) and place some obscure blockade that can come up out of the ground or something as such.

It'd probably require the playing feild to be half way between the bottom and top of the map. Having the realistic side on the bottom (upside down) and what you have no on top. You could then have some nicely placed teleporters and enough draw distance to make it looks seemlessly circular. (You could get launched in the air and smack into the floor that is underneath everyone else, get it?)

Or you can completley ignore me.

But those are some suggestions based on what you currently have.


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: Hex
Posted by Myrk- on Sat Jul 2nd at 1:46pm 2005

Hmmm... Or, if you feel like doing alot of entities instead of size and grandure, a mass button that removes all the hexagons, and makes it all normal. So a button that transforms Hexagons to normal, and a button that does the reverse, Assuming you use quite a few clip brushes and some kill entities, should be pheasable, and more impressive than a huge hexagonal map.




-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-



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 Re: Hex
Posted by Supa on Sat Jul 2nd at 8:14pm 2005

Initially I was going for something entirely abstract, then I played around with a beehive kinda thing, but eventually I settled on this island setting.

I've just about finished a beehive map, Breakhive, based on a breakable staggered hexagonal grid. It does stress the source engine in that each hex is a entity and its pretty much maxed out the model and entdata pools. The nice thing about the structure is that as you dig through the honeycomb you have 12 directions to go. (3 up, 3 down, 6 sideways)




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 Re: Hex
Posted by Andrei on Sun Jul 3rd at 12:21pm 2005

Well, if you're making a map of such nature why not make it steel panthers like, with grass and small forests on the ground to add some diversity. For those of you who don't know, this is how one of the greatest TBSs of the past looked like.


It has an option to turn the hexgrid off or on so that's why it's missing here.




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 Re: Hex
Posted by mazemaster on Sun Jul 3rd at 12:46pm 2005

Maybe you could put 1 non-hex object per hex tile (and maybe some tiles with nothing on them), sort of like the hex-based 2d games in this thread. eg: on the green hex tiles, you put a tree. On some the sand hex tiles, you put some driftwood. On the grey hex tiles, you put a rock, etc.


http://maze5.net



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 Re: Hex
Posted by Captain P on Sun Jul 3rd at 8:06pm 2005

And on the edges, you could build streets, while on the vertices, villages and city's would...



Still reminds me of that game... <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif"> Perhaps you could use that in some way for your level, like placing the level in a giant rooms, with hands moving tiles and such? That would need modelling but I think such effects would be really... weird...



Create-ivity - a game development blog



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 Re: Hex
Posted by Forceflow on Mon Jul 4th at 4:03pm 2005

You shouldt have all those hexagonal blocks the same size. No matter how big it's gonna be, one sort of blocks will be boring.



:: Forceflow.be :: Nuclear Dawn developer



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 Re: Hex
Posted by G.Ballblue on Mon Jul 4th at 4:45pm 2005

? quoting Captain P
And on the edges, you could build streets, while on the vertices, villages and city's would...



Still reminds me of that game... Perhaps you could use that in some way for your level, like placing the level in a giant rooms, with hands moving tiles and such? That would need modelling but I think such effects would be really... weird...

That looks like something out of "Jumping Flash". <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif"> I would say this is a great idea, have an individual world for each hex (and maybe still hold the cel shading? <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif"> ) Also, have you considered having any floating hexez?




Breaking the laws of mapping since 2003 and doing a damn fine job at it



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 Re: Hex
Posted by Myrk- on Tue Jul 5th at 1:13am 2005

Boardgames like that remind me of risk!


-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-



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 Re: Hex
Posted by habboi on Tue Jul 5th at 9:50am 2005

Zone of the Enders 2 had this boss fight with hexagons flying everywhere!
It was crazy hmm let me see if I can get a picture:

http://www.gamehope.com/s0106/img06/2b325e8ef4.jpg

Damn it is so small but you can see tiny floating things around him <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">






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