Dm_Cloudcity
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Re: Dm_Cloudcity
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Jan 3rd at 5:26pm 2006


I am salivating over the screens files here. You could actually increase them a smidgen with incurring anyones wrath. The clarity is even shocking this old man and I am one of the pioneers of the perfect image size.

/me bows to a master.

I really need to download this thing but, I only want to do so twice. Once for a critique perhaps and once for a completed version. Downloading sucks owl s**t these days.

Lemme know when this thing is ready for my attentions.

Thats not an elite comment, its a self aware "hey I'm on 56k" kind.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: Dm_Cloudcity
Posted by reaper47 on Tue Jan 3rd at 5:43pm 2006


I especially like the last picture.

I'm not sure about the red lights. They are alarming, almost look a bit to colorfull to me in contrast with the blue lights next to them. I'd try to go with a more consistent light color, or split the blue/orange parts into seperate areas.

What I miss is a true focal point in most screens. The spotlights are too evenly distributed in the map. There should be a piece of geometry that stands out from everything else. This could be done by brighter lighting and some darker areas around it, more contrast, maybe a bigger part with no spotlights at all.

I'm not sure what you intended but I always see the buildings in the background with lots of little yellowish/blueish lit windows. I'd try to use at least some temporary textures to simulate this. They could become a very important part of the visuals even though they are in the background. Maybe it will look odd later when combined with the little spotlights in the foreground!




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Re: Dm_Cloudcity
Posted by CooliO on Tue Jan 3rd at 9:00pm 2006


? quote:
I especially like the last picture.

I'm not sure about the red lights. They are alarming, almost look a bit to colorfull to me in contrast with the blue lights next to them. I'd try to go with a more consistent light color, or split the blue/orange parts into seperate areas.

What I miss is a true focal point in most screens. The spotlights are too evenly distributed in the map. There should be a piece of geometry that stands out from everything else. This could be done by brighter lighting and some darker areas around it, more contrast, maybe a bigger part with no spotlights at all.

I'm not sure what you intended but I always see the buildings in the background with lots of little yellowish/blueish lit windows. I'd try to use at least some temporary textures to simulate this. They could become a very important part of the visuals even though they are in the background. Maybe it will look odd later when combined with the little spotlights in the foreground!


True and abit boring IMO if you plan on making every building use the same set of gray/orange textures.



The beginning is a very good place to start.



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Re: Dm_Cloudcity
Posted by Dark_Kilauea on Wed Jan 4th at 6:23pm 2006


He still doesn't have a full set of custem textures btw.

You do have me impressed MisterBister. I personally like the red and blue lights but you do need some kind of focal point. Maybe a statue or fountain or something. A city of this size is bound to have a major public works project somewhere.

Keep it up, I'll download when you get into the beta phases.



Dark_Kilauea
DVS Administration
http://www.dvstudio-production.com/



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Re: Dm_Cloudcity
Posted by MisterBister on Mon Jan 9th at 8:00pm 2006


Progress:
I read the "bens small bible of realistic multiplayer design" the other day and it really blowed me away.
Im currently looking at the map from a whole new perspective gameplay-wise, and its really exciting.
I also found out that it lacks lots of gameplay tweaks that I havent thought of before. Solutions to these issues has bombarded me today, and ive got lots of new great ideas. Im currently playing around with them.

It feels a bit funny too.
You have been a leveldesigner for about five years and you "think" you know it all, and then something like this shows up just totally turns everything upside down.
I have to email the author and thank him. Its a must read, doesnt matter if youre a hardcore mapper or not.
It can be found here:
http://www.crymod.com/uploads/tutorials/Crytek/Bens_Small_Bible_of_Realistic_Multiplayer_Level_Design.pdf

Im currently struggling with the textures aswell. Ive done lots of progress, but its a loong road. Im getting help from a friend who is very talented though. Hopefully, some of the textures in the final version will be by myself =).

Thanks ALOT for the feedback. Here's my answers.

? quote:
I am salivating over the screens files here. You could actually increase them a smidgen with incurring anyones wrath. The clarity is even shocking this old man and I am one of the pioneers of the perfect image size.

/me bows to a master.

I really need to download this thing but, I only want to do so twice. Once for a critique perhaps and once for a completed version. Downloading sucks owl s**t these days.
Lemme know when this thing is ready for my attentions.
Thats not an elite comment, its a self aware "hey I'm on 56k" kind.


Well... Uh.... I really dont get anything of what you said in the first sentence, but since you wrote "/me bows to a master" I guess thats good..

? quote:

I especially like the last picture.

I'm not sure about the red lights. They are alarming, almost look a bit to colorfull to me in contrast with the blue lights next to them. I'd try to go with a more consistent light color, or split the blue/orange parts into seperate areas.

What I miss is a true focal point in most screens. The spotlights are too evenly distributed in the map. There should be a piece of geometry that stands out from everything else. This could be done by brighter lighting and some darker areas around it, more contrast, maybe a bigger part with no spotlights at all.

I'm not sure what you intended but I always see the buildings in the background with lots of little yellowish/blueish lit windows. I'd try to use at least some temporary textures to simulate this. They could become a very important part of the visuals even though they are in the background. Maybe it will look odd later when combined with the little spotlights in the foreground!


I got fond of the red lights, so im afraid ill stick to them..
Thanks for mentioning the focal point thing, i havent thought of that and it really makes sense to me.
I have a few ideas that im playing around with at the moment to fix that.

? quote:

True and abit boring IMO if you plan on making every building use the same set of gray/orange textures.


I dont intend to use the same set of orange/grey textures. They are dev textures since I dont have gotten proper custom textures yet. Im working really hard with trying to learn photoshop but hey, noone can become a master in a few weeks.

? quote:

He still doesn't have a full set of custem textures btw.

You do have me impressed MisterBister. I personally like the red and blue lights but you do need some kind of focal point. Maybe a statue or fountain or something. A city of this size is bound to have a major public works project somewhere.

Keep it up, I'll download when you get into the beta phases.


Yes, thanks for mentioning the focal point. Im working on that. I also agree that it needs to be something solid, like a statue or whatever. As I said, ive got a few ideas that im playing around with.




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Re: Dm_Cloudcity
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Mon Jan 9th at 9:34pm 2006


MisterBister, thanks for sharing that article. I only got through part of it, but it was interesting.




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Re: Dm_Cloudcity
Posted by Belgarion on Mon Jan 9th at 11:18pm 2006


agreed. I found it quite interesting, and I'm actually now listening to Cliff's GDC speech.






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Re: Dm_Cloudcity
Posted by CooliO on Tue Jan 10th at 7:20am 2006


? quote:
I dont intend to use the same set of orange/grey textures. They are dev textures since I dont have gotten proper custom textures yet. Im working really hard with trying to learn photoshop but hey, noone can become a master in a few weeks.


Great - from the new screenshots you posted, with the new gold texture, I feared that you where simply going to replace the devloper textures with that and a grey texture.

I really like the look of your level, plz keep updating. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">





The beginning is a very good place to start.



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Re: Dm_Cloudcity
Posted by MisterBister on Fri Jan 13th at 1:31pm 2006


Right, time for an update.

Ive been mainly working on texturing, but also optimizing and some gameplay elements.
Ive got hold of Dm_neons textures and got permission from IZaNaGI to use them. Since they have a pretty special theme ill use them sparsly to avoid making my map looking like his.
Ive added some stuff that clearly gave the map a whole new look. ive also made one texture that fitted in the map, and im very proud of that after just a few weeks of training in photoshop =).


image
In this image you can clearly see that windows has been added to the skyskrapers. Spaceships has been added which is a scrolling texture, a very cheap and cool looking solution. An Ad (Bistercola) has replaced Breen however it will probably be replaced or enhanced. Lots of textures has been added to this seen, however its pretty hard to detect.

image
Same scene from another view. It looks much more detailed thanks to the textures.


image
A view of some skyscrapers, you can clearly see the spaceships here aswell.

image
An overview of the main battle area. Windows has been added to the building in the background, and as more detailed decals. You can see them if you look closely. Ads has been added by those found in Dm_neon. However ill probably change those aswell. Starwars stuff just doesnt fit..

image
The warehouse part has been enhanced with more detail (the "elevators" with crates on them). Ive added a floor texture and other textures here and there.
Ive decided to make the crate textures myself, but I havent started doing them just yet.


image
Inside the lab. More textures has been added, but no geometry. Ive got some ideas that im planning to ad, but that will come later on.

So, what do you guys think?
Feedback is appreciated, as always.




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Re: Dm_Cloudcity
Posted by CooliO on Fri Jan 13th at 6:46pm 2006


I love what you have done to the place. As for the ad. maybe you could use the heads from some smiling rebel girl models to make it more HL2'ish.



The beginning is a very good place to start.



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Re: Dm_Cloudcity
Posted by BlisTer on Sun Jan 15th at 2:50am 2006


somehow the windows in the skyscrapers seem too small to me, but maybe i'm not seeing the proportions right. In the 3rd pic, the stream of spaceships seems too non-random. maybe draw some spaceships in a different shape / color and unequally spaced apart. also dont forget to add some sort of (background/soft) noise for the stream of spaceships, would be weird without it i think. nice idea though, and idd cheap <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> wonder how the effect ingame is.


These words are my diaries screaming out loud



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Re: Dm_Cloudcity
Posted by Gwil on Mon Jan 16th at 3:16pm 2006


Yeah, the windows do look too small, considering how close you are to the buildings. Try giving them "frames" and making them larger - and maybe even having a few more lights switched off?

Would it be possible to maybe have the ads on a billboard that floats? Little jets coming out the bottom, flips over... that would look cool.






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Re: Dm_Cloudcity
Posted by jeffjohnvol on Thu Jan 19th at 4:29pm 2006


? quoting Addicted to Morphine
MisterBister, thanks for sharing that article. I only got through part of it, but it was interesting.

I'm only partway through the article myself, and I agree with the author about gameplay trumping visuals.

My favorite mp map is ofc_beach5, but I read some reviews that the textures looked off and that it was a rush job etc., with no consideration to how much fun it is. When you're running around a corner who cares if if a rock was used several times. Plus, the plethora of secret areas in the map always keeps you guessing.

I don't care what chinese food looks like as long as it tastes good. Same with mapping. A map can look brilliant, but its not fun to play, who cares. I think there are 2 camps of critics, those that judge whether the visuals and theme really look nice, and those that are concerned with gameplay (and some of both I'm sure). Personally, I prefer the latter. I do have a lot of admiration for those that make maps look so professional though.




Help stop the arsehole: http://ebaumsworldsucks.com/



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Re: Dm_Cloudcity
Posted by ReNo on Thu Jan 19th at 5:57pm 2006


I love the way you are taking this map mate, it's feeling very grand and memorable already. As the others said, the windows could probably do with being a bit bigger, and the floating vehicles would be better if a bit more sporadic (I get that you may be going for the concept of "sky lanes" or the like, but the gaps between cars and the car variant layout is a bit too noticable uniform at the moment), but it's coming on very very nicely.






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Re: Dm_Cloudcity
Posted by MisterBister on Sun Jan 22nd at 2:03am 2006


Progress:
Im currently working alot with textures and have given most of the map textures. However some areas, like the warehouse, is almost untouched at present. Im also experimenting with cratetextures that ive made. Perhaps ill keep them, perhaps not. Ive also added lots of small detail, and areas, that will increase the fun-factor. Im also working on the lighting to make it more colourful. Hopefully ill give you some images in about a week.

? quote:
I love what you have done to the place. As for the ad. maybe you could use the heads from some smiling rebel girl models to make it more HL2'ish.


I dont intend to make the map HL2'ish.

? quote:
somehow the windows in the skyscrapers seem too small to me, but maybe i'm not seeing the proportions right. In the 3rd pic, the stream of spaceships seems too non-random. maybe draw some spaceships in a different shape / color and unequally spaced apart. also dont forget to add some sort of (background/soft) noise for the stream of spaceships, would be weird without it i think. nice idea though, and idd cheap <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> wonder how the effect ingame is.


Ive had lots of feedback regarding the windows (even from my girlfriend). Ill try to make new windows by myself which will variate more in colour and be more separated and detailed. Im trying to create spaceship-lanes, thats why they are so non-random.

? quote:

Yeah, the windows do look too small, considering how close you are to the buildings. Try giving them "frames" and making them larger - and maybe even having a few more lights switched off?

Would it be possible to maybe have the ads on a billboard that floats? Little jets coming out the bottom, flips

over... that would look cool.


Ive been playing with of floating billboards, however im not sure if ill use them.. Ill have to do some more tweaking before i decide anything.


? quote:

My favorite mp map is ofc_beach5, but I read some reviews that the textures looked off and that it was a rush job etc., with no consideration to how much fun it is. When you're running around a corner who cares if if a rock was used several times. Plus, the plethora of secret areas in the map always keeps you guessing. I don't care what chinese food looks like as long as it tastes good. Same with mapping. A map can look brilliant, but its not fun to play, who cares. I think there are 2 camps of critics, those that judge whether the visuals and theme really look nice, and those that are concerned with gameplay (and some of both I'm sure). Personally, I prefer the latter. I do have a lot of admiration for those that make maps look so professional though.


Well, I really prefer good gameplay. However, its not easy to have good gameplay when you have nobody who whats to test the map. Luckily, ive got my friends and we have been gametesting a few times. And its been real fun, Im adding elements to increase the fun-factor right now.

? quote:

I love the way you are taking this map mate, it's feeling very grand and memorable already. As the others said, the windows could probably do with being a bit bigger, and the floating vehicles would be better if a bit more sporadic (I get that you may be going for the concept of "sky lanes" or the like, but the gaps between cars and the car variant layout is a bit too noticable uniform at the moment), but it's coming on very very nicely.


Thanks, as i said, im working on the windows. As for the spaceships, I don't agree.




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Re: Dm_Cloudcity
Posted by DrGlass on Sun Jan 22nd at 10:58am 2006


Check out pictures of real night time buildings, they arn't just white holes. I would shoot for an animated texture that gave them a VERY slight shimmer (too much would make all you buildings look like they were moving around)




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Re: Dm_Cloudcity
Posted by MisterBister on Mon Jan 30th at 8:16am 2006


Progress:
It has been a long time since i updated you with some pics, but now im here again.
Since the last update ive been working mainly on learning photoshop and adding colours to the map. Enough said, heres the images:

image
First off is an overview. Ive lighten it up a bit and added more colour. Here you can also see the clouds ive been working with, however im havinga real hard time adding the same spritebased clouds in the 3D-sky. They just wont show up. Ive tried func_smokevolume aswell, but then i just get an error saying that the material hasnt been precached or something like that.

image
An overview from another angle. The most notable thing is the blue and red screens, however ive also added two big holes on the "bridges".

image
Same scene from another angle (again..). Here you can see some of the spotlights added in the 3D-sky aswell as ads in the 3D-sky. They will be replaced with something more appropriate in due time.


image
Ive added the red area to make this tunnel more interesting. The crate textures is actually made by me aswell.

image
Ive added some textures in here aswell. The crate textures are all made by me. Not the most pretty work you have seen i guess, but they work =P.

image
Ive added the red area aswell. You can actually jump down there and get yourself healed and get armor with suitcharges. The bad thing is that people can easily drop down grenades when you heal up, and since its difficult to get out of that area you will probably get killed trying to get out of there if you are discovered.

image
A pic of the 3D-sky. Ive added the glow to the lights aswell as new textures to the buildings.

image
This area is shaping up pretty well. I dont remember showing a pic of this area until now.




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Re: Dm_Cloudcity
Posted by Dark|Killer on Mon Jan 30th at 12:06pm 2006


No wonder why i love you that much...

lol, seriously, thats really one freakin attractive, lovely, pleasant, delightful, appealing, good-looking, lovely, gorgeous, stunning, striking, fine-looking, attractive, astonishing, astounding, remarkable, wonderful, incredible, startling, marvellous, miraculous, surprising, mind-blowing , mind-boggling , staggering
map i have seen these recent days, and i mean it...

Nice going bro, keep it up...( downloading it right now )

ps. arent these skybox-building textures, animated posters, and flying cars, as same as the ones in dm_neon ??

--anyway a really wonderful job you acheived <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">



.::Dark|Masta::. - One name. One legend.



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Re: Dm_Cloudcity
Posted by Orpheus on Mon Jan 30th at 1:52pm 2006


1st off, the maps progression is phenomenal. You advancement from your earlier works is obvious.

That said, I am getting the distinct impression that you are centering your concerns on vista's again. Your earlier works did this. You seem overly concerned with long lines of sight. I think/feel that you should concentrate a tad bit more on your inside, short line areas more. The outside looks so good that I would (just looking at the images) say its on par with many of the big gaming title releases. However, the inside areas look as if they were added begrudgingly. I realize that that sounds a bit harsh, but as I said, I can only judge by the screens.

Look at all the screens that are less grand in distance seen. They are all bland, or nearly bland in comparison to "The Fifth Element" scenes of the outside section. The outside has architecture to spare. The inside has... boxes. The outside has colors and moving/animated scenes, the inside has boxes.

At the very least, add some color inside and many of the animated scenes, possibly via televisions or monitors. It has been my experience that movies and maps of this theme that are successful have inside areas full of advertisements with flashy bits and bobs.

I feel that this map will fall short of the expectations if all of its areas are not equally addressed. A picture may have launched a thousand ships, but many more pictures have sunk to the depths of obscurity because of short sightedness.

/2 cents





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: Dm_Cloudcity
Posted by Dark|Killer on Mon Jan 30th at 1:57pm 2006


Well, thats a better certique than mine, but its still a freakin attractive, lovely, pleasant, delightful, appealing, good-looking, lovely, gorgeous, stunning, striking, fine-looking, attractive, astonishing, astounding, remarkable, wonderful, incredible, startling, marvellous, miraculous, surprising, mind-blowing , mind-boggling , staggering map <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">


.::Dark|Masta::. - One name. One legend.




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