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 Re: de_malta
Posted by SpiKeRs on Wed Apr 12th at 7:28pm 2006

This is a little map I've been playing around with on and off for a few months. Its loosely based on my holiday to Malta last year. It still needs a lot of work, but I think its finally time to release some piccies and get some feedback, so I would much appreciate all your thoughts on it <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">

This is the town centre/market area:
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A back street leading off from the above area:
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From here you can make your way inside the houses:
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And then down into the cellar:
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Note the hole in the wall, in the above picture? This leads to the 1st bomb site, which is a crypt:
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From the crypt you can work your way upstairs to the churchyard which is the 2nd bomb site:
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Hello there.



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 Re: de_malta
Posted by reaper47 on Wed Apr 12th at 10:56pm 2006

Looks nice so far. I don't like the green lighting. It looks like it's just there for the sake of it and that's always a bad thing.



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 Re: de_malta
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Apr 12th at 11:28pm 2006

If however you want the green tinge, you can put a light entity over the room and set it to a very faint green lumen's.

I concur that the lights on the wall look bad in green but the crypt would look neeto remaining slightly green.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: de_malta
Posted by Captain P on Thu Apr 13th at 7:34am 2006

That green light probably comes from the night goggles. :P

Overall, looks pretty decent to me. I've got a few grips, namely that the inside parts feel a bit small and too straight/uniform (everything 90-degree, even prop placement). The outside parts, the last two shots especially, feel pretty dusty which is a good thing I think, but they're close to looking monotome concerning colors used. And again, they feel a bit too uniform, too clean.

Other than that, it looks like a solid theme, keep it up! <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">


Create-ivity - a game development blog



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 Re: de_malta
Posted by Orpheus on Thu Apr 13th at 12:24pm 2006

? quoting Captain P
That green light probably comes from the night goggles.

Shows my f**king ignorance in all its glory doesn't it?

Seriously though, I thought the casket/crypt image looked very nice tinged in green.

The rest... was iffy.

Besides, who takes screens with their goggles on anyway? Pretty silly, but it might explain why I didn't catch on.

*shrugs*





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: de_malta
Posted by G4MER on Thu Apr 13th at 1:42pm 2006

no the goggles are way green, like neon green.. thats not from the goggles.. so Orph your right on..



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 Re: de_malta
Posted by SpiKeRs on Thu Apr 13th at 5:15pm 2006

The lighting was meant to be more orangey than green to try and get a hot, dusky feel. No, I didnt use goggles <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif"> Thanks for the feedback so far but can I have more non-lighting based critiques now please <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">



Hello there.



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 Re: de_malta
Posted by habboi on Fri Apr 14th at 10:11am 2006

I was gonna say yesterday you were wrong Cap'n but if 'I' was wrong I'd look the fool so I hid. A nice looking map by the way.




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 Re: de_malta
Posted by reaper47 on Fri Apr 14th at 12:28pm 2006

? quote:
The lighting was meant to be more orangey than green to try and get a hot, dusky feel. No, I didnt use goggles image Thanks for the feedback so far but can I have more non-lighting based critiques now please image


Alright, you asked for it! smiley

[man, I could have sworn I already posted this answer, maybe it's floating around in another, totally different thread where I accidently posted?]

Anyway, I think what your map lacks is a center point, a highlight, a "trademark" if you want. The shots all look very well done but they could be from 4 different maps and not necessarily the most exciting parts of those maps. Right now this map looks "a bit like cs_italy". Add something that brings all the parts of the map together, a unique feature, a piece of architecture that stands out, that people can easily think of as the "Map with the .....". Maybe a church?



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 Re: de_malta
Posted by Captain P on Fri Apr 14th at 1:07pm 2006

Heh, so I was wrong. Ok. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

I believe reaper47 makes a good point too: there's no strong landmarks or unique things to see. I already said it looks monotone because of the limited colors used, but that also counts for other things. The streets and plaza's are fairly empty and flat and it does feel a bit 'standard'. Putting in some height difference (definitely don't make those roads so flat), perhaps up to the point that it becomes a hill village, could help, and placing high, outstanding buildings (like indeed a church) helps giving the map some unique points and they break up the low buildings. Higher stuff is usually also more impressive. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">


Create-ivity - a game development blog



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 Re: de_malta
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Apr 14th at 1:16pm 2006

I think the only problem at this point is his presentation. Since there is no download link, you cannot really comment on its focal point. Who's to say that he took a true representation of his entire map with just those screens?

True, the majority of the screens show nothing but hallways but, one cannot really be so sure enough to say the map lacks something until they have been inside it. At least don't sound like thats a certainty.

/methinks it needs a download link, and a critique before it gets much closer to completion to ensure the feasibility of editing.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: de_malta
Posted by Captain P on Fri Apr 14th at 4:17pm 2006

That's true, Orph. But, I would assume you take screenshots of the most interesting parts of your map (well, I would). Either way, the shots provided do lack things I mentioned (in my point of view of course <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">). But yeah, the lack of focal points or landmarks is indeed discussable for the moment.


Create-ivity - a game development blog



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 Re: de_malta
Posted by SpiKeRs on Fri Apr 14th at 9:26pm 2006

Thanks again for the feedback. In the past I have had the habit of releasing loads of betas of my maps so am adopting a image-focused approach this time. Dont underestimate how helpful judging a map based on in-game shots actually is, its given me something to think about/focus on without spending loads of time adding the iffy functionality required to play/release the map as a fully fledged beta. I've already made a siginificant restructue to the map which I would no doubt post pictures of soon <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">



Hello there.



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 Re: de_malta
Posted by Captain P on Fri Apr 14th at 9:51pm 2006

Well, I still wouldn't underestimate the importance of a beta version - it's good for gameplay testing, and that's a thing you want to nail down pretty early since assets take so much longer to create these days. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">


Create-ivity - a game development blog



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 Re: de_malta
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Apr 14th at 10:26pm 2006

The PM system works. You can govern who has the beta's.

You can also specify that they not be made public to keep them out of the servers.

Screens are nice, but I trust my own eyes, not yours.. Sorry. Thats not meant to be hateful.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: de_malta
Posted by SpiKeRs on Sat Apr 15th at 7:56am 2006

Yeah I agree with you both. I'd had a few drinks and made my point badly <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif"> What I was getting at was I've actually recieved some quite useful stuff to work on based simply on those sets of pictures and I've saved myself the hassle of releasing a beta or 2 before making those changes, which previously I would have done. I'm trying new approaches with this map and 1 of those things is to not release 10 betas of something like I have done in the past. Whether that works out better or worse we will have to see but so far the mapping has been more enjoyable.



Hello there.



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 Re: de_malta
Posted by reaper47 on Sat Apr 15th at 10:44am 2006

I think betas for non-commercial work (like custom maps) do require much more polished and "finished" releases because they mostly go directly to public. Before using "orange rooms" Valve made lots of little sandbox levels just to illustrate the theme, lighting, texturing, modeling ect and only then started with the actual levels, using bits and pieces from the sandbox. If you release a beta to public you can't really "explain" what it should look and feel like later. You have to show it inside the map already. That means waiting with a beta release for a more fleshed out version of the map makes sense. Sometimes visuals have to be planned as early as the layout (which doesn't mean it's more important). I think (think) that's what SpiKeRs means and I'd agree with that.



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 Re: de_malta
Posted by Captain P on Sat Apr 15th at 9:19pm 2006

I've playtested one of my maps when it was just out of the 'grey-orange' phase. Not a public playtest of course, only with a few friends. It was a helpfull thing indeed. A later playtest on the Snarkpit server gave me valuable feedback as well. The map had then less detail than this map, what I can see from the screenshots. Yet, it wasn't a bad idea at all.

I agree that releasing 10 beta's is probably overkill for us amateurs, though some companies seem to playtest much more extensively than that even before any real assets like models or textures are being made. I also agree visuals can (and for best results, should) be planned in beforehand.
Anyway, my point is: you'll need early playtesting to get the gameplay good from the start. Visuals can be judged by screenshots easier, but that's finally not the backbone of a good map (which doesn't mean it's not important, but what's cream without a cake underneath? <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">).


Create-ivity - a game development blog



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 Re: de_malta
Posted by SpiKeRs on Sun Apr 30th at 4:12pm 2006

Based on the feedback I've gone and hacked up a few places. Was gonna release a beta but I'm going away so I'll put up a few shots of what I have worked on so far.

This is the churchyard again. I've made it larger and added the foliage in the middle. This hopefully goes someway to resolving the repetitiveness of the colours here and adds a bit of extra cover. The lighting and skybox is also different and much more fitting a mediterranean setting I hope.
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This is the crypt. Again its slightly larger. Ive changed some of the textures and made the roof arched which should fit in with the setting better.
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The cellar again. Hopefully I've sorted out the "box with props" thing that was going on before
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Hello there.



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 Re: de_malta
Posted by $loth on Sun Apr 30th at 4:56pm 2006

This is looking great <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif"> The only thing I can criticise from your new pics is the first one, it's only a small point but it could benefit from a more 3d skybox, with some extra houses or mountains.





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